2005 4L no start - then what happened - help please

[Argentimage]

OK 2005 - been here since nearly new, was a New Model Launch vehicle at Ford - low vin - all the quality torque checks, etc. Now at 241000 miles.

Yesterday picked up bath stuff at the big box, dropped off, parked in that driveway, on returning no start.

Clicking.
thought - original starter solenoid - tapped the solenoid with long screw driver, then it would not even click.

Starter - changed - what an ordeal to get that upper bolt out!

Finished removal this morning- had to buy / use a 350lb impact right angle driver

We noticed the batter was low, not clear reason why, so we put that on jumpers.

rebuilt starter goes in, wires snugged up

key on start - nothing.

Had my son take screw driver shorted the solenoid small terminal to the top stud - its turning over but for a good while but will not start.

Can not figure this out, removed starter wires, they look good, little grease is better than corroded.

Reinstall - same thing, not a peep when the key turned, but shorting the small terminal and top post it turns over rapidly, with key on it should start?


Any ideas where to go now?

Alternator was change two years ago
battery has 2-3 years

 

[gavingray350]

I would check your fuses first then see if you’re getting any voltage to the solenoid wire at the start when turning the key to crank. These have immobilizers in them so I don’t know if they will start if you jump the starter.

 

[410Fortune]

2005 uses a starter relay
You should check the relay see if it clicks when you turn the key?

Between the key switch and starter there is a relay

Is the theft light flashing? Does it go out when you turn the key to “start”

 

[Argentimage]

We checked fuses

Multimeter check tomorrow as it was forgotten when we went to the vehicle

No theft light noted in the start cycle

It flashes when you lock the vehicle

I’m not sure what you mean by clicks, as is it should or should not?

My son has a code reader, says only code EGR p0403

 

[DintDobbs]

If you crank it and it clicks, replace battery with known good battery and/or jump start from car with known good battery.

2-3 years is all that can be expected from a common battery; I usually buy mid- to high-range (usually between $200-300, some times closer to $400) and like to replace them every 5-ish years. Batteries can also have random defects that shorten their lives, or fry them altogether.

Check the things the other fellas have mentioned here, but when you say the battery is 2-3 years old, I'd look there first.

 

[Argentimage]

If you crank it and it clicks, replace battery with known good battery and/or jump start from car with known good battery.

2-3 years is all that can be expected from a common battery; I usually buy mid- to high-range (usually between $200-300, some times closer to $400) and like to replace them every 5-ish years. Batteries can also have random defects that shorten their lives, or fry them altogether.

Check the things the other fellas have mentioned here, but when you say the battery is 2-3 years old, I'd look there first.

We could short the solenoid and get the engine to spin, would not start
That suggests sufficient battery power

Upon replacing starter it would not even click

We will check solenoid wire for power on next visit

 

[410Fortune]

Starter relay is suspect

There is a fuse and a relay for the starter

2005 Ford Explorer fuse box diagram - StartMyCar

www.startmycar.com

The neutral safety switch also suspect
Try starting the vehicle with the shifter in neutral

 

[Argentimage]

Starter relay is suspect

There is a fuse and a relay for the starter

2005 Ford Explorer fuse box diagram - StartMyCar

www.startmycar.com

The neutral safety switch also suspect
Try starting the vehicle with the shifter in neutral

Ok
Saturday morning sunny side up

Battery after all this fussing 11.7, put on a known 13.4v

Key in
to on position
Chk gauge and airbag illuminated which has been there for years tied to the pass side seat vround

engine battery light illuminated

Turn key to start. I do hear the click in column dash

Nothing else

Checked fuses in pdb
23
12

Both good continuity visual

A mystery

 

[410Fortune]

You need to do some testing at the starter relay
That fuse feeds a relay
I sent you a link

Relay 56 is for starter

 

[Argentimage]

Thank you for sending first

The links “problems with” don’t open
However!….
55 56 57 are the same relay part number

So I could cycle these relays thru the blower motor, they all work and when plugged back in I could hear 56 and 57 activate modules.

The only thing suggested I can’t do solo is see if there power to the solenoid wire when key turned, at lease without alligator lead extensions

 

[Argentimage]

As I mentioned above, I put a known good battery 13.4v measured
No change in lack of a crank, but recal shorting the solenoid, the engine spun freely

key question, to further rule out battery, what is the minimum voltage the system will crank cycle?

Even though all other systems function at 12v….

 

[410Fortune]

11.5 and below you start to have real problems

If your anti theft system is not happy it will never start because the computer disables the starter and the injectors

 

[Argentimage]

I dont have anything to suggest the pats or bcm are acting up. No lights, relays click, no codes.

They act like they have for 20 years...just saying.

 

[Argentimage]

More info

The battery has 12.8 V

I took the original starter power and ground short to the solenoid, and the original starter works

So somewhere this is in the interlock system

No response in park or neutral shifting it quite a few times

Original Key
Original key fob does everything that’s supposed to do
The door pad number is open like they’re supposed to locking like they’re supposed to double beeping because the hood is open


The one odd thing I note is the steering wheel does not lock in park. It took almost a quarter turn of the wheel before it locked

 

[410Fortune]

So the steering wheel does lock

Have you done any testing at the relay?

With a multi meter or test light you can easily determine where the signal is getting lost to the starter
It goes from ignition switch to starter fise to starter relay and out to starter

Often the starter relay is grounded by the pats system when it is happy with the key. The pcm is the pats module here and the starter rely ground is provided by the pcm

The theft light should flash steadily, and then go out when the key is turned to start,

 

[Argentimage]

So the steering wheel does lock

Have you done any testing at the relay?

With a multi meter or test light you can easily determine where the signal is getting lost to the starter
It goes from ignition switch to starter fise to starter relay and out to starter

Often the starter relay is grounded by the pats system when it is happy with the key. The pcm is the pats module here and the starter rely ground is provided by the pcm

The theft light should flash steadily, and then go out when the key is turned to start,

The steering wheel locks, but it takes a quarter turn. That’s not normal. It used to lock with just a wiggle.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the pats ring is what talks to the key and that’s on the ignition cylinder

All the fuses and relays are good. They were confirmed here yesterday.

The only thing that’s in question is what send the signal to the relay, and how do I check that with a multimeter?

 

[410Fortune]

Allright good now we getting somewhere

Testing the signal at the relay was the first thing to do after e fuses checked good, battery is good and starter is known good

So the relay gets power from starter fuse and sends it to the starter when three things happen
1 12v+ signal arrives from ignition switch with key in start position
2 the pcm grounds the ground side of relay because it is happy with the security key
3 the signal from the ignition switch to relay passes through the range sensor switch on the side of the trans when vehicle in park or neutral (called neutral safety switch or digital transmission range sensor dtrs)

The halo is in the steering column around the key and tumbler yes. It is the antenna that reads the chip in your Key and sends the code to the pcm

Now we need to look at the 2005 explorer
Starting circuit wiring diagram

The park brake, steering wheel lock, shifter lock is not part of the pats security or starting system

 

[Argentimage]

The steering wheel locks, but it takes a quarter turn. That’s not normal. It used to lock with just a wiggle.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the pets ring is what talk to the key and that’s on the ignition cylinder

All the fuses and relays are good. They confirmed that yesterday.

The only thing that’s in question is what send the signal to the relay, and how do I check that with a multimeter?

Allright good now we getting somewhere

Testing the signal at the relay was the first thing to do after e fuses checked good, battery is good and starter is known good

So the relay gets power from starter fuse and sends it to the starter when three things happen
1 12v+ signal arrives from ignition switch with key in start position
2 the pcm grounds the ground side of relay because it is happy with the security key
3 the signal from the ignition switch to relay passes through the range sensor switch on the side of the trans when vehicle in park or neutral (called neutral safety switch or digital transmission range sensor dtrs)

The halo is in the steering column around the key and tumbler yes. It is the antenna that reads the chip in your Key and sends the code to the pcm

Now we need to look at the 2005 explorer
Starting circuit wiring diagram

The park brake, steering wheel lock, shifter lock is not part of the pats security or starting system

I’m thinking that there’s an icon, this anti theft that’s different that in your earlier post

Here is a link to a video from key on to shifting to neutral and beyond

 

[Argentimage]

here is the link - let me know if this i the correct display sequence