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A4LD DIARY - PT 2

Glacier991

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A4LD DIARY - PT 2 (W/PIX ALSO)

This is a continuation of a thread on the attempt to build a "near Bulletproof A4LD". Part one can be accessed here:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98027

This is the continuation of that thread - in part 1 we tore the transmission down to it's base parts. In this thread we will evaluate and rebuild each component, and in part 3 we will reassemble the transmission.

We'll start at the back, with the governor assembly.

GOVERNOR

I promised I'd start this new thread of evaluation and component rebuilding with a look at the governor. For those of you with pre-'95 explorers, this can affect the 1-2 shift, and final OD shift point. There is a "wave" washer at the back of the case which apparently has a bad reputation for contaminating this governor valve - but the good news is that you can get to the governor with the transmission in the car. You can remove the transfer case and get to it through the extension housing (there is a pic looking at it through that housing the the first part of this thread), or better yet just remove the extension housing, it's not hard - and you are already going to be replacing a gasket on the one end, what's one more ?

Here is the governor in its parts - nothing holds it together so it easily comes apart. The part are the main body, the valve, the counterweight and spring. FYI a new one is $65.
15286Dscn4215-med.jpg


There is an upgrade of a slightly heavier counterweight, lowering the OD shift point (or maybe putting it back where it ought to be). I plan to add this.
None of these part have been polished - yet. Here's the main body, showing the place the weight rides.. it's aluminum so I'll lightly polish it.

15286Dscn4218-med.jpg


Here's the valve assembly... minor scoring, not bad, but it is steel so I'll buff it up..

15286Dscn4219-med.jpg


And here is the old weight, which I plan to replace

15286Dscn4220-med.jpg


To polish I am using 3M scotchbrite, in the "fine" category

15286Dscn4222-med.jpg


I cut a piece and swirled the valve in it - (it took both hands but I needed one for the picture)... polished up nice... once you are done, clean it good (I use brake cleaner) lube it with either transmission fluid or vaseline (I lubed it with vaseline) and reassemble it to reuse - with the new weight, if you choose to follow my path.

15286Dscn4223-med.jpg


That's all there is to it!
 



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TheRookie

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I would like to thank you for all you are posting about this. Thanks for helping out make this board a great one
 






Glacier991

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Thanks for the kind words, they are appreciated.
 






Glacier991

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On the subject of Bushings

Came across something curious today. I used my handy dandy $6 bushing remover/installer set today to pound out the rear case bushing - the one the output shaft goes through. I have a replacement. The outer diameter of the old one is aout .003 to .004 less than the new one. The inside diameters are as follows:

Old one:

15286DSCN4225_1_.jpg


and now the "new" one

15286Dscn4224.jpg


Now I'll be the first to tell you I am prone to inside measuring errors, but the magnitude - .008 is borne out when I put them on the shaft (which is 1.008 EXACTLY - outside measurements with a mike I can do) The shell thickness is identical. (The old one was in excellent shape, in other words- nothing worn away)

Old one was "FORD" new one is "aftermarket (CLEVITE).

So my question is, is there a "crush" factor in these? Do they "shrink" a little when they are installed? I certainly will check the new one installed, and if it is the same ID(too big) I'll reinstall the old one - OR... did they want more oil room? a diff of .010 between the bushing and the shaft seems HUGE to me. Ideas anyone?

In comparing bushings, I hate to say this but, the FORD ones seem better that aftermarket....I mean compare drain back slots in the rear case bushing between FORD, on the left, and aftermarket on the right.... maybe... like in pumps.. factory IS best in some things....hmmmmm - just a thought for consideration.
[Postscript - this MAY go to a bearing, instead of a bushing.. still exploring that change in the 5R55]

15286Dscn4233-med.jpg



And, yes I DO plan to replace all the bushings, and will mike each one a I did this one. I have the aftermarket set, for $20, I'll price FORD ones where the replacement is OBVIOUS.... maybe, just maybe I'll be telling you to go FORD. (Much as that hurts sometimes)
 






Glacier991

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Damage Repair in Reverse/Low Drum area

Well I priced (and bought) all the parts to repair the damage we saw on the teardown. I even decided to go ahead and replace the sprag and drum. [which on further reflection I am debating reusing the old one]. Total cost ? About $200 additional. OW. So maybe the parts are headed upwards to $900 or so. I try and console myself with the notion that it will be NEW there - or better than new with the upgraded race and rear washer. When I can get them all side by side to compare I will and show you photos.

Turns out, by the way, the last rebuilder left out a steel washer that the thrust washer behind the input shell rode against. It was never designed to ride on the input shell. Makes me wonder if they checked end play at all.

[Having said that, I now wonder if that washer is used on 4.0 applications, or only on the 2.8-9 and 3.0 versions - that's one of the tough things about this trannie - the multiple variations of it - so I may have spoken too quickly on that "missing washer"]

Oh and, that stubby sun gear in that shell? $38!!!
 






SteveVB

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Originally posted by Glacier991


Turns out, by the way, the last rebuilder left out a steel washer that the thrust washer behind the input shell rode against. It was never designed to ride on the input shell. Makes me wonder if they checked end play at all.



That seems to me to be the "cause" of most of the problems for the rebuilds- carelessness.
The missing washer, the non seated retaining ring, not checking the end-play- which should have raised some questions.
The bearing issue is interesting. Check the bearing bore- I dont know, but I would think it will close up a bit. Is that an aftermarket bushing, or a Ford part. Be interesting to see if theres a difference. Or put it in and let us know what the final dia is.

Get an anti-stick spring for the govenor weight.
 






Glacier991

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Steve - I've not run across that - I have found a replacement spring for the TC shuttle valve, but not the governor - who makes it and how do I get one? Thanks!
 






SteveVB

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Chris, its part of the Superior kit, but I think it could be duplicated with any light spring.

Get me your fax number and I can send the paper work for both kits and you can take a look before you start assembly.
 






Glacier991

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GOVERNOR BORE TOOL

I was thinking about powder coating this case black. I've changed my mind - for a couple of reasons. First off - even stripped, the Aluminum case contains steel (rear band anchor pins) and heated to the temps required for powder coating would create dissimilar expansion, possibly causing problems. Also, someone has told me heating Aluminum over 300 degrees F affects integrity and strength. SO - now the plan is use a catalyzed paint system - believe it or not the same paint I'll use on the exterior, with the clear coat. That may also move up the machining and addition of any sleeves since I won't have to wait to powder coat it. We've been talking about the governor,so, along those lines, I do plan to sleeve the governor oil collector bore - just to be on the "safe" side. (Even though the old one looked "ok" - this is a "look forward" rebuild)

Here is the setup... a boring tool, a sleeve, and a bushing installer and a drill to drill the sleeve.

15286Dscn4226-med.jpg


They bolt in place of the extension housing - the cutting is done my turning the cutterhead with a socket wrench until it bottoms out in the case.

15286Dscn4231.jpg


I'll add the pictures of the actual machining process and addition of the sleeve here when I do it. (Soon as I clean the case and sandblast the exterior.)
 






Glacier991

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Right now I am still doing homework on potential upgrades. Sonnax had offered a center support steel bushing insert to handle the OD one way input shaft, which offered significant additional support. But guess what? The 5R55E had another upgraded center support with BEARINGS on the center support OD shaft passage, and a new OD Shaft to match. I am headed to my Aceomatic dealer tomorrow with a 6 pack of beer and a dial caliper. I think this may be reverse compatible! If so what a HUGE find! I think with some bribery they may let me do some reverse engineering on their counter.

I also am wondering about the OD drum clutch piston on the 5R series. I understand it was bigger and they went to a 2 plate clutch pack! (That dinner with a FORD trannie engineer is sounding better and better - damn I wish I knew why they did what they did....)

No pix tonight... sorry... I'll try and find some component I can show you soon... actual rebuild may be a week or 3 away.... too much to learn about each part to do it too quick.
 






Glacier991

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Ok, time to seek some help. My aceomatic dealer didn't have the newer 5R55E parts I referred to above (re center support etc). What I want to investigate specifically is can I get the 5R55 center support with the bearing in it, use the new forward drum and overdrive sprag-shaft assembly that also goes with that center support (now all bearing in this section) and install it in an A4LD?

My gut sense is that I can, but I need to either be able to do a visual comparison or get confirmation that I can make this modification. I'm putting out the call for help on this one. I've found a FEW things in the 5R series that are MAJOR upgrades - I'm wondering if no one has bothered to see if they work in the basic A4LD, or just already know the answer to what I'm trying to find out and the answer is no. Appreciate any help on this one.
 






Glacier991

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TORQUE CONVERTOR

I've bought what feel is a good torque convertor, and at a reasonable price. The rebuilder was even good enough to put a tag on it telling me the statistics (although I am not yet sure what some of their numbers actually mean). Here's the tag

15286Dscn4238.jpg


I mean the endplay I understand plainly. The runout number... 3 cannot be right, . (point)3 ? And the 16, that one has me stumped. Anyway, I happen to have the 1980 tool for hooking into the guts of this thing so I can at least easily check end play... maybe that will be a good test of their honesty... The tool goes into the convertor and expands in the stator. It looks like this

15286Dscn4257-med.jpg


Expanding into the center of the convetor allows yo to check end play. Here it is installed (horrible pic, but gives you an idea)

15286Dscn4243-med.jpg


I attempt to turn the dial to zero it - for reasons I won't go into here, I felt -1 was close enough, I'd do the math later. Here's the starting point wihme ready to lift the guts of the TC to measure inner "end play"

15286Dscn4239-med.jpg


And here's a much better pic of the dial indicator "pre-lift" - set to minus .001

15286Dscn4240-med.jpg


And when I lift up the "guts" (as I love to refer to them as) until it stops, here's the final reading...

15286Dscn4242-med.jpg


So the math is easy... .028 minus .001 equals .027.
Ok it's NOT .025.... but in my book ok, close enough.
The runout will be difficult to check, all I want to know is it the hub runout .3 or 3? And primary runout... someone tell me? What is THAT ?

So bottom line, if you are using a rebuilt TC, this tool is NOT anything you need - if your rebuilder is honest (g). I suppose if you were curious whether the old TC was reusable and had a lot of miles this might be nice, kinda. I'd not sweat this though. If you had metal in the pan, I'd also suggest that you get a rebuilt TC or at least get the old one flushed!
 






Glacier991

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CASE

This is the exoskeleton, if you will, of the whole trannie. Frankly I continue to be amazed how small transmission cases are - considering what happens inside them. Anyway today I sandblasted this case... and now it is starting to look pretty good. Here's a couple of pix...

15286Dscn4248-med.jpg


and this one...

15286Dscn4249-med.jpg


Time to start the machining for steel sleeves.. here's the cutter for the governor bore sleeve mounted on the case (and HEY it was a NICE day for a change in a while, so I did this outside, in No. CA... eat your hearts out in MINN...)

15286Dscn4250-med.jpg


The job was not easy, took some muscle to turn it... even lubricated and all in the bore (as it should be)... this is about half way through....
15286Dscn4252-med.jpg


If you look carefully you can see the shoulder of the cut...

Here is the end result, cutter removed

15286Dscn4253-med.jpg


Here is the cutter having done it's job....
15286Dscn4254-med.jpg


The next step is to install the steel sleeve. Even though it does not instruct you to, I intend to use locktite on this
so will wait til I have some fresh locktite to install the sleeve, which I will add pictures of here when I do.

Meanwhile.... we need to pound out the old rear drum race, the thing the rear one way sprag rides on. The only way to do this is to drill two holes so you can pound it out fom the rear side. Sonnax (I LOVE these guys) has a drill jig to help you do this with some accuracy. It fits into the tail end of the governor oil collector, here it is installed and with a drill bit inserted into the pilot hole. A pin in the jig aligns it...(at 6 o'clock)

15286Dscn4258-med.jpg


I drilled the holes.... the aluminum was easy but the tip centers out on the back of the steel washer so you don't start out with a 1/4 inch hole to work in...the tools you will need are a longish punch and a hammer, this one is 32 oz.

15286Dscn4264.jpg


Remember you are hammering (ultimately) on the end of the case, do it on cardboard or something softer than aluminum, like wood...

15286Dscn4259-med.jpg


It takes a few smart whacks on each side, alternating back and forth.. you do not want to **** the race on the rear snout in the case, so go back and forth often.. you will start to feel your progress .. I had the punch almost all the way in on one side and was wondering how long it needed to be, but two more whacks on the other side and the race was out.. here is the pin punch practically stuck in the case on the oe side when I was worrying...

15286Dscn4260-med.jpg


when you are done the race will fall out.. here's the race and the slightly damaged wave washer from behind it (where you have been pouding)

15286Dscn4261-med.jpg


And here is a look into the rear of the case, without the rear race in place. You can see where the splines cut into that rear snout... the new ones are pretty healthy too. Look closely and you can see he holes I drilled to pound it out too.

15286Dscn4263-med.jpg


Lets compare what came out with what is going to go back in. The old is on the left:

15286Dscn4267-med.jpg


In the back is the race.... the old one was galled... sure it mic's ok, but to have reused it would be (in my opinion anyway) a mistake... here is a look at the surface - remember the sprag is metal and metal rides on metal... this would be the one side of that metal on metal.. imagine what the sprags look like microscopically

15286Dscn4274-med.jpg


And here is the new one...

15286Dscn4275-med.jpg


In the middle of that first picture there is the wave washer (old) and the new hardened steel washer.... Remember in fairness I beat the crap out of the old wave washer to get the bearing out... here they are close up side by side

15286Dscn4270-med.jpg



And thickness? ( this will show up in our eventual end play calculations I know) The new washer is on the right

15286Dscn4271.jpg


Another pic of this

15286Dscn4272-med.jpg


Up front is the end cap... the old design was stamped, and to be honest it hardly looks like anything I would want to bear against. Sonnax says the stamping procedure cracks the bronze which flakes off in use (and clogs the governor in some cases). I believe them. The one on the right is their design.
15286Dscn4268.jpg


I took two pics, one with flash and one without... here's the one with flash

15286Dscn4269.jpg


Other case problem areas? The main shift shaft entry point gets ovalled out... you can put a sleeve in it to save the case.... bears attention.
15286Dscn4265-med.jpg


Also the anchor pins for the low/reverse band are a problem area, every time you feel a {{JERK}} in those gears, THESE get hammered. Some come loose. Sonnax has an aftermarket fix if they are loose. CHECK 'em Danno!

15286Dscn4266.jpg


For now all I need to do is degrease and clean the case thoroughly blowing out each and every line in it, put in the governor sleeve and a rear output shaft bushing, replace the rear washer and rear drum race, paint the case black and it is done!
 






Glacier991

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BULLETPROOF ? UPGRADES

I have come a long way in my understanding of the A4LD. I have a developing sense of where it might be "upgradeable" to solve known problem areas. Here's what I know to date:

Front Pump/Seal/Bushing: This has been a historical problem area on rebuilds. At the factory the front pump bushing was machined in place in the bellhousing. Rebuilds did not follow the same approach, and pump failures or seal problems followed. Moral... machine a new bushing in place. (Also use a pump alignment tool on reassembly). Easy enough.

Front to back.... Next problem area OD unit. This is what made the A4LD a A4LD and not a C-3. Typically it has had it's share of problems. OD planetary leads the list. Anyone rebuilding an A4LD and NOT using a new HD welded planetary is choosing to "cut a corner" in my view - especially when the HD welded replacement is only $45. I've also found that FORD seems to have had it's share of problem with the stamped steel shells (drums), and that's what this OD has - clearly something to look at. Mine exhibits symptoms of eccentric rotation - I'll show you in the rebuild. This may be a good time to say that the 4R55 series was not a huge leap forward in upgrades. BUT! The 5R55 series was! On the 5R FORD put bearings on the back end of the pump where it goes into the OD unit! I am still investigating this change, but find it significant. Other than this new find, my best advice is replace the front OD sprag, no matter what. On side note, alhough the 5R went to a new design of fricton plates (with spiral grooves cut in them) they also went to a 2 plate setup in the OD. THIS I find curious. Is the new design that much better or is the holding power increased in fluid pressures or piston size ? What if you did 3 spiral groove plates? hmmm.

Center Support - WOW, the 5R made a HUGE change. But first let's talk about the A4LD. The center support was apparently the genesis of other problems, for with the 93 model year it got changed. Sonnax (a tremendous aftermarket "fix the trannie" company) went a step further and added 2 steel sleeves in the aluminum bore of the center support. These are two separate fixes, and one requires a machine shop service the bore. The Center support center bore supports the OD output shaft and the front snout of the forward drum. Ford never did anything there until the 5R, and then (hang on) WENT TO BEARINGS! Here's a pic of the 5R center with the bearings - these ride in the intermediate drum...

15286DSCN5098.jpg


(Those geniuses at Sonnax - ahead of their time). Could a new OD output shaft, bearing equipped center support and new bearing equipped forward drum and 5R intermediate drum be slipped into an A4LD ? I'm vainly trying to find out. If not, I'm thinking I may opt for BOTH seeves, certyainly the one the OD unit rides in anyway.

Forward drum and clutches - not a problem area that I know of.

Intermediate Band - a few snapped or otherwise broke. No fix available. In my book reason enough not to go to a "firm shift". We will modify the valve body, but not to harden the shift points.

Forward planetary - at least a welded unit. Not a weak point though but why take a chance, planetaries take a beating. (And are usually what gets upgraded in successive models of transmissions - even Chrysler and GM have made THAT mistake).

Rear drum, rear planetary and rear one way sprag - Another problem area. I recommend the Sonnax replacement race, replace the rear sprag, and make sure your rear planetary is in good shape. A bearing may be possible in here, still checking. But all THAT said, let me tell you what FORD did here in the 5R. The rear drum now has a bearing in back that is a inside roller bearing that rides on the rear sprag clutch race! Right behind the rear sprag! And the planetary is once again retained by a snap ring in the rear drum, and a torrington bearing sits in FRONT of it! (No matter what THAT one may be reverse compatible).

On the subject of bearings, in addition to the above, in the 5R there are ONLY TWO thrust washers... in the back, under the old governor oil collector, and #1. Everything else is bearings!!!!!!!

Rear band Steel Anchors - these are case mounted. They need to be checked for security. Aftermarket replacements are available.

One other interesting note. It appears that the low powered 2.9 and 3.0 applications of the early A4LD used a roller bearing at the tail end of the housing for the output shaft. In the 4.0 applications that was gone and a bushing was used. In the 5R series, the roller bearing was back. Curious.



So... I guess the idea is see how close you can come to making the guts a 5R and upgrade the valve body .....

I'm still doing homework on the valve body but have to say that - leaving the firming shift aspects out (which you can do) the Superior Valve Body kit, the Transgo Valve Body kit, and the Sonnax Boost valve replacement are all worthy ideas in my book, and a "must do" for the purposes of THIS rebuild. I'll show the various ones when we get there during the rebuild.

Whew.. long post, sorry.
 






Glacier991

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VALVE BODY

This post will evolve, but I wanted to start out by saying that the Superior and Trans-Go kits are a worthy addition. I do not plan to "firm up" my shifts - I was happy with a factory shift and frankly am not sure the trannie will last as long with "HARD" shifts... but the firm shifts are a minor part of these kits - a pleasant surprse to me. These kits have lots of goodies -

Example... the old modulator valve was aluminum... mine was scored or scratched - look at he right hand end "dumbbell" here:

15286Dscn4255-med.jpg


It is difficult to see in this picture but on the left inner end of the larger section there are deep scratches longitudinal to the valve.... maybe it's easier to see on the side by side picture.

Here is the one from the kit side by side... the new valve is steel, and comes with a new modulator pin. Pin is not stock length, but overall assembly is, using the new valve.

15286Dscn4256-med.jpg



As I work on the valve body (lots to do here) I will continue to add to this post. I am trying to keep this section broken down by component parts.
 






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I'm glad you are taking the time to document everything you are doing and there's no doubt in my mind that others will find this very useful,

however...

I take exception to the wording you use. You seem to imply that if people aren't doing things your way, they are wrong. That could not be further from the truth..

Fact of the matter is, if it isnt broken, dont fix it. Its fine to upgrade if you have the time and money and there is no doubt in my mind that there is a better way to do things other than how ford did in the pre 93 explorers, however, I can guarantee you that if you measure and mic everything you remove, if its within spec, there is no reason to change it for the average daily driver.

The rebuild I did had a bad intermediate band and scored drum. I put in new seals, clutches, checked everything, and put in a new #4 thrust washer, but everything else was fine. Its out on the road today running like a champ. Sure, I could have dumped tons of money into it and replaced every hard part, but why didnt I do it?

I'll tell you why.

Dumping money into a tranny doesn't guarantee that it will be better. Doing it right and maintaining what you have is the ONLY way to keep stuff working. Why do you think these rebuilds that others have had done failed? Because they have vo-tech junkies working on them who could care less if they are put together correctly. I seriously doubt they measure every piece and replace what needs replacing. They find what they think broke, replace it and put it all back together without doing a thorough inspection.

Why do ford factory trannies fail? Well, people dont take care of their stuff. I bought a new project Saturday morning, another 91 X with slow engagement in the tranny and no 4wd. Simple problems to fix--a vacuum modulator and hose and a r&r of the 4wd motor. I went to change the tranny fluid and it looked like watery motor oil. I bet you $20.00 that it has NEVER been changed. The filter was a ford filter, but who knows if it came from factory or a dealer replacement.

Financially, it makes no sense to put 1k plus into a vehicle that isnt worth that to begin with if you dont need to.

Anyway, this isnt a slam on you or anything, but I do want people to take notice that there are many ways to skin a cat and there is no single way to do anything.

time for lunch, will be back later.
 






Glacier991

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Slag - no offense taken. You are obviously correct in what you say. I agree with most all of it. I certainly do not want to give the impression that if you do not rebuild your A4LD along the lines which I am that your trannie is destined to fail. That's not my purpose here. My purpose is to try and do an "all out" near as can be to bulletproof rebuild. You could certainly skip a lot of steps here and not do much of what I am doing and have a transmission perfect for a daily driver. Will you get the same life out of it ? I don't know.

And of course your point about taking care of things automotive is certainly valid. Regular fluid changes, and COOLERS! will go a long way. My A4LD has 206,000 on it!

And as for cost, from a purely economic sense a good argument can be made that putting this kind of time, money and effort into a transmission on a 92 explorer is nuts. Maybe it is. I plan to keep it though, and what I save on license fees, taxes and car payments afford me a little "mad money" for my rebuild (grin).

So, those reading please understand, this thread is trying to demonstrate everything one CAN do to improve an A4LD rebuild. You can certainly get by doing much less. That said, I read in some of my internet wanderings a statement that an AdLD rebuild, if done to last, usually requires a few hundred dollars of hard parts replacement. That's not me saying this, but was a rebuilder. I do believe that a soft parts only rebuild has less chance of longevity in this transmission.
*****
Rereading this and Slag's post I have to take exception to one thing he says (with due respect) and that is "If it isn't broken don't fix it". I offer this thought. If the A4LD has known weak areas (and it does) and you are rebuilding an A4LD trannie with say, 80,000 miles on it, have it OUT of the car and apart, WHY not replace the wearing parts in known failure areas? Turn back the clock on them to zero instead of starting it again in late life for them. I think NOT replacing those parts when you have the chance is false economy in my humble opinion. (And why A4LD rebuilds are so problematical). My 2 cents on preventative maintenance FWIW. It's how they work on aircraft, btw. (added 3/10)
 






Runnin'OnEmpty

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Glacier, I'm anxiously awaiting your posts on the shift kits for the valve body. I recieved my (5R) Superior kit yesterday, and am considering which parts to actually install. I had already decided to leave out the 'towing' portion, because of the firmer shifting it would cause. Your mention of the trouble with snapped intermediate bands, along with firmer shifting, confirmed my thinking.

I'm re-stating the obvious here, but the reason for manufacturing the transmissions with thrust washers instead of bearings is simple economics. If it's cheaper to manufacture, that's more profits for Ford. It's good to know though, that Ford in their infinite wisdom went back to bearings in the 5R (which I now have).

You probably have A4LD documentation running out the ears, but I have an ATSG manual for the 5R55E, in case you need to cross-reference/confirm any 5R55E part numbers.
Later,
Don
 






Glacier991

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Don... thanks. I have the CD's for all the explorers from 92 up to 2002, and they do cover the 5R. They do not have as much detail as the FORD Transmission manuals, but they are not bad. Often though they give a generic part number, and not the actual complete part number (eg. 7D069 as opposed to EZ709-3Z334).

I'll probably do the valve body next week, or the weekend. I'm going to put in the Transgo kit and the Superior kit (parts of each) and make SOME of the modifications suggested (drilling mainly). I also plan to add the sonnax boost valve retrofit, but I don;t have that yet, and not sure if I will find it locally without having to mail away for it, which could delay things.

I'll also finish the case next week, and replace the rear drum race inside the case, as well as the rear inside washer. I'm hoping to know by then if the entire 5R drum is backward compatible or not. I know the 5R necessitated a new case, and am thinking the 5R may be different enough not to be backward compatible in many areas. Do you have an overall length in your materials ?

Finally, I have settled on using all the 5R spiral grooved plates, and plan to use them in the A4LD numbers, not the 5R numbers. I am still mystified why the 5R went from a 3 plate OD clutch to a 2 plate, and from a 6 plate forward to a 5 plate forward clutch.

What I wouldn't give for a 5R to tear down side by and and make these comparisons.
 



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Runnin'OnEmpty

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Glacier, I was thumbing through my 5R manual, and nowhere does it give the external measurements.

However, it does mention having different plate packs in the forward clutch, both a 5 and a 6 pack. Elsewhere it mentions that the number of plates is engine specific, so I would assume the 5 pack is for the OHV and the 6 pack is for the SOHC (because of the higher horsepower....?) That still dosen't answer why Ford would go to the (5R) 5 pack in what is basically the same h.p. engine as the A4LD 6 pack is in.

Like we thought, it also mentions that the spiral clutch plate grooves are for more uniform lubrication and better cooling.

And no, you can't have my 5R to tear down and examine.....:D
 






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