Bkennedy's SAS and Rebuild Thread

As some of you know, I am working on building a parts list for a shortened Dana 44, long radius arm with coil overs SAS. 5:13 gears to match my rear axle and an ARB, maybe an electric locker. I have a pretty good list so far. At the same time, I am going to swap out the rear drum brakes for discs off of a 99 Explorer.

Please note: The plan is to keep this project as simple as possible with mostly off the shelf parts. I am not a fabricator, just a decent welder with a what I would consider the minimum required tools (chop saw, cut off wheels, air tools, welder, etc.), who likes doing his own work. Your opinions are welcome, but what I really need is technical advice. I have been thinking about this for several years and now have the time and cash to make it happen. Please keep on topic with your advice and don't go off on a side track about how you would do it as a four-link, or caged arms, or leave the axle full-width because that is not what I want. I want a simple-ish set up that works.

 

[410Fortune]

the circuit breaker will work fine, I would not mount that cheapo fuse holder under a truck, the O rings wont last a year and the fuse will corrode away
If you notice the amp already has internal fuses, those usually blow first if there is an amp issue.

The stock speaker wires will work fine for you use, they can carry plenty of power and sound. I use them all the time at these power levels......way better then trying to wire through all 4 door boots.

Is that green wire the ground for this amp? Keep stereo grounds as short as possible and don't let them cross over any large power feed wires, this helps avoid noise interference in the stereo


I would not put the cargo panel back in until you have driven around a bunch and listened to many different types of music so you can tune the amp the way you like it before you bury it Also consider the air space around the amp, you do not want to install your factory plastic bits just to put the sound deadening material (factory) right up against the amp, give it some room to breathe if possible.
I know whenever I re do a stereo it can take quite a few trips and sounds before I have an amp and its settings "dialed in"
As soon as you think you have it sounding perfect in the shop you will hit the road and find something needs to change

 

[BKennedy]

That's good advice. I moved the ground wire and power wires away from the speaker wires. The power wire comes from a different direction, but the on/off feed does come from that side and is with the speaker wires. I got the amp running today, but nothing mounted. I ran the 4 RCA wires from the head unit to the amp, powered it up. It sounds very good with my cheepo Boss 3-way speakers that are rated to 300 watts each. I am already thinking I am having a speaker wire issue though. The amp is a 4 channel amp. There are very little instructions on how to tune it, but on the amp itself it has a level adjuster for channels 1-2 and 3-4.

Channels 1-2 for the front speakers and 3-4 for the rear, right?

I can turn the level all the way to max for channels 3-4, but get crazy distortion after about half way for channel 1-2. I am thinking that I either got the speaker wires reversed for one of the front speakers, or there is a bad wire, or all of the above.

All this was the same with several different types of music and different CD's, radio and even a USB flashdrive with a remastered version of Dark Side of the Moon. I will play around with some more tomorrow.
PDF manual.

https://www.rockvilleaudio.com/content/Manuals/RXM-RXD_Manual_OL.pdf

 

[JW]

You shouldn't get *distortion* with a speaker out of phase. Switch 1 & 2 and 3 & 4 at the amp to rule out an issue with the amp itself. You could also have blown speakers - a speaker is happier with *clean* power over its rating than it is with dirty power at or approaching its rating. Also try swapping the RCA cables at the amp to rule out a head unit or cable issue.

 

[BKennedy]

I'll try all that tomorrow.

I forgot to mention in my previous post that I got the new door latch installed. That took about an hour to figure out what the sequence was to get all the rods attached. Also broke the plastic door lock pawl that attaches the rod to the lock. Luckily, I had another one. When I went to install the new window motor, I spent about an hour looking for the nuts and bolts. I couldn't find them and luckily I was able to locate replacements in my nuts and bolts drawers. I figure they will turn up in a few months in plain sight. Got both door panels installed and everything works.

 

[410Fortune]

well done
The rca cables should be channels 1 & 2 = front left and right
channels 3 & 4 rear left and right
But that is UP TO YOU!!!!! Your head unit may have 4 rca feeds or 6, sometimes they have a sub woofer amp out also. Make sure you have them in the correct feeds where you want them

The amp likely has some settings for each pair of rca inputs. Gain (this is the power level adjustment for the incoming signal, like a volume control) Gain should ALWAYS be at half or less for testing
Then they will give you some filter options, these are called crossovers. Basically a filter that will block bass from hitting smaller speakers, very helpful for tuning a system. A HP filter stands for HIGH PASS filter. You set this at the frequency you want the speaker to get, like 120 hz or above so your small door speakers don't try to play low frequencies (Bass) it will cutout any sound below your chosen setting.

Now this can get a little complex because some head units also have filters built in...and you will really get crappy sound if you try to double filter the signals...meaning a filter in the head unit and a filter in the amp can cause issues. So its best to use one or the other.....meaning set the amp on NO FILTER and do all the tuning with the head unit, or vise versa

Now check your wiring make sure you have the speakers hooked up properly to the amp. Channel 1 = front left, channel 2 = front right, 3 = rl, 4 = rr
make sure + is + and - is -
Set the amp to flat, no filters and gains right in the middle of the dial
see how it sounds

 

[BKennedy]

I don't have a subwoofer, just the door speakers so I left the LFP HFP FULL set to FULL. Its a simple amp with not a lot of adjustment, which works for me because I really don't want to spend a week figuring it out.

I found out what the issue was. It wasn't distortion, it was more of a feedback sound. I isolated the front speakers one at a time and it was coming from the driver's door speaker. I removed the door panel (again) and pulled the speaker. I noticed that I had crimped the speaker wires when I installed the speaker last, which was when I replaced the window motor, which was right before I installed the amp. I ran temp speaker wire and noise went away. I can crank the gain up all the way, but left both at 3/4 for now. I cut out the crimped portion of the wires and hooked back up, works great. It gets about 3 times as loud as before, which is plenty for my wants. It also sounds much better with that much more power running through the system. Glad I don't have to replace the speaker wires because I wasn't looking forward to that. I am going to solder all the wire ends that go into the amp to keep them from wiggling apart, shorten the ground wire, and mount it up.

I have to constantly remind myself this is a trail rig that gets driven around town and to the trails, sometimes for 100's of miles, but its purpose, its reason for existing, is a bad-ass trail rig. Audio equipment really doesn't last a long time in that type of environment. I will see how this all holds up. I did notice there is audio equipment for side-by-sides now that is supposed to hold up much better. Maybe the prices will be down in a few years when I am replacing this system. I seem to get about two years out of a head unit. This Kenwood has lasted longer than all of the previous units at three years but I play most of my music through its USB port as opposed to using CD's which is what usually goes bad.

 

[BKennedy]

I finally got the cables all routed and the amp mounted. I cut out as much of the OEM wire harness that's not going to be used anymore as I could get to and got the passenger area back together. If anyone wants a adaptor for the OEM wiring to aftermarket head unit, and a amp bypass harness let me know. Free to good home.

I started on the sound deadener. The Stiless brand is the same stuff as the Kilmat I used before, just rebranded, a little less expensive and in larger sheets. You have to smooth it out with a roller and your hands, but once its on there its on there. I got about half of that down but it takes time because I have to work around the mounts for the shelf/floor and the D rings welded to the floor. Should be able to get the rest of the deadener, the driver side panel and shelf/floor installed tomorrow. I will take it for a drive before I install the panel that covers the amp. The only issue with that is I have to remove the shelf/floor to install the panel.
Main issue for me tuning a amp is I have no idea what I am doing, am going by ear and like just about every genre of music so its all a compromise. The head unit gives me a bunch of options that seem like they will work well with the amp for different types of music. I listened to the entire Dark Side of the Moon album, some modern western, some classical, some classic rock, and some newer hard rock. I changed to equalizer settings each time and it sounds fine to me. It does have three base settings I keep messing with, and I might have pissed off my neighbors a little. Trail rig, trail rig, trail rig....don't forget.
Amp mounted

It clears the panel by at least a inch so it should have enough room to keep cool. I ran it for a few hours straight today and it didn't get more than warm. Yes, its upside down. That is the way it needed to be so I could make adjustments. Paperwork says it can be mounted at any angle or orientation.

Here is how I ended up mounting the power wire off the auxiliary battery.

I used rivets because I was going through the floor and didn't want sharp screw points sticking into the cargo area. The rivets are covered by the sound deadener. The wire has two layers of expandable loom covering.

 

[gmanpaint]

Nice job as always. I'm digging that Amp bracket mount.... a lot!

I'm running two amps in mine. A 4 ch, and a sub amp. Wasn't enough room for them both inside the side panel, so placed them under the rear seat. You have me wanting to make a bracket like that, and put one of them back there now. LOL

Congrats on the new to you, high speed road noise blocking system.

 

[BKennedy]

Got more done today, but keep adding to the project, which I have developed a bad habit of doing on a regular basis.
All the sound deadener installed

Then the driver side panel after I installed two new 12 volt charge plugs (I had one in there before)

Then I decided to modify my fluid storage area. Several years ago, I opened up the small storage area in the passenger side panel. I store a bunch of fluids and other stuff in that flat spot. I have;
2 quarts Amsoil MTF, Atlas
2 quarts 5w-30 engine oil
2 quarts Lucas 85-140 gear oil
2 quarts Mobile 1 ATF (works for multiple uses)
12oz Lucas synthetic brake fluid
1 quart Motorcraft Type F trans fluid (for power steering)
Differential filler tube
Gas can filler neck
Hand cleaner
2 pair of latex gloves
Several shop towels
I opened up the panel more, then added a flap to keep anything away from the amp. I also used some leftover carpet pieces and glued in some leftover headliner material to cushion the oil bottles. I think I might be able to fit in even more stuff now!

Installed the shelf/floor but didn't glue it down this time. I'll need to remove the tops to install the panel. I have it set up so it requires some downward pressure to line up the bolt holes on the tabs that are welded to the floor. I had to push down quite a bit more than I remember so I am glad I didn't go with a thicker sound deadener.

I left the passenger side panel off, but other than that its back together. The garage is a total mess, but I can clean that up a few minutes at a time.

 

[BKennedy]

I painted my old gas cans with the engine enamel paint that is supposed to be resistant to oil and gas. I should have kept them in the shade while they dried because they developed some tiny surface imperfections, but they are gas cans on a trail rig. Will see how they hold up.

I still haven't put all the stuff back that I removed from the Explorer to install the amp and the sound deadener. I need to go through it all and see what I really need when I am miles away from a paved road. I'll take inventory as I go so I can find the stuff when needed.

 

[BKennedy]

I was looking at other threads and figured out I need another power source in the cargo area on the passenger side in addition to the two I have on the driver side. I store my big cooler over there for weight distribution during expedition type trips and have been looking at upgrading to a 12 volt fridge. Before I install that panel I need to run one more wire. Of course, that got me to decide to isolate the rear charge plugs and run them through their own fuse panel, which I just happen to have recently installed right next to the plugs.

 

[BKennedy]

I took the Explorer to get smog tested today and it passed as usual. Took it to my parent's house to do some work over there about 20 miles away. Stereo sounded pretty good, then I turned it up quickly and it started distorting bad at higher volume. I checked and all the connections are still connected. A little more playing around with it and I noticed its coming out of the right-front speaker. I think its blown already.

Can you audio geeks recommend a good set of speakers that will fit in the door's factory locations, (no sub-woofer) that will sound good and not be crazy expensive?

Smog guy crawling around

Picture of the pretty Explorer at my parent's house.

 

[gmanpaint]

Without a sub, and with an amp, I would suggest going with component speakers.

You can get an adapter plate to run 6" round, and a seperate tweeter for each door, or just tweets for one pair. This is the setup I run in the 94, with Rockford fosgate speakers. Far better bass, and mids with them, over a 5x7, or 6x8. Price difference is nominal.

Rig does look pretty sharp too!

 

[BKennedy]

Post a pic of the inside of the door so I can see where the tweeter is located.

 

[gmanpaint]

Next time I have a door panel off. Not sure when that will be tho, as I don't plan on taking the doors apart just to take a picture. Lol

You can run 5.25 speakers with a tweeter on the same adapter plate in a stock speaker location.

Or you can run a seperate surface mount directional tweeter on the surface of your choice, with the bigger 6" round speakers.

Or, you can run the 6" in the front, and the 5.25" w/ tweets in the rear.

 

[BKennedy]

Sorry, I thought they were surface mounted.

 

[JW]

The tweeters would be, depending on the kit and size you get.

I'm going to offer a varying opinion - you can get a good midrange set of coaxials for what a low-end component set would cost. Infinity and Polk make good stuff that isn't horribly expensive. You can go 6x8 *or* 6 1/2 with a little work. I had 6 1/2 Infinity Reference components in the front of my 1994 Ranger and probably wouldnt go to the trouble again (I had coaxials in the rear locations)

 

[410Fortune]

How about this, try turning down your gain to half way marks on the amp............... distrortion happens with higher gain settings. OPTIMAL gain settings would be 1/4-1/2 on the dial....... to turn up the volume simply turn to a higher setting on the deck

Also try switching the chan 1 & 2 rca cables from side to side to make sure it is a problem with the right side speaker and not the right side signal from the head unit.

You can get good quality 5x7 speakers that will fit the doors, no need to go separates
Kicker, Diamond Audio, and others make good co axial speakers for a decent price.

You want to match speakers to your amp, if you are pushing 50 watts per channel then you would want a speaker that can handle 50 watts nominal...

 

[gmanpaint]

Stock sized speakers are offered by higher end companies and can sound nice, but they are made with a subwoofer in mind for a complete system. I merely offered a different choice, knowing most would say stock sizes. 6.5 speakers will offer more punch than a 5x7 in any line up. A good 6x9 can offer more punch as well, but a 6.5 is easier to install in the explorer.

In my trail rig, I run stock sized pioneers with an amp, but only because it also has a subwoofer with it's own amp. If I removed the sub, I would change the speakers to 6.5 to get some bass back at least. This is just my taste, and not a for everyone.

Find a stereo shop that has decent brands and types already hooked up to listen too, then make a choice based on your personal likes.

 

[BKennedy]

I think part of the problem is the lack of bass in the speakers. Makes me turn the bass up, which causes distortion