Brakes pulse/surge and looking for opinions on parts

[Kjhadfield]

I just figured out the bolts for bracket to knuckle, dorman 13898. Are these good quality, strength wise?

 

[Kjhadfield]

Is the only way to remove the caliper guide bolts when the bracket/caliper is attached to the knuckle? I was getting familiar with the reman caliper and going to prep and spray it but I couldn't get the caliper bolt loose, couldn't get the right leverage I suppose. Its a 14mm (I think) and wouldn't budge. I also tried to loosen the bleeder screw, I think 5/16 open wrench and it started to strip the edges. I can't believe I'm having all this trouble on just the reman, not looking forward to the rusted on the truck but at least I should get some leverage with it being attached

 

[swshawaii]

Caliper adapter bolt torque spec is 83 ft/lbs. with Loctite if removed before. Use a standard SIX point socket and a short
cheater pipe for leverage, and heat the bolt heads if necessary. Regarding the bleeder screws, again use a six point socket
instead of an open end wrench. IIRC, the OEM bleeder screws are 3/8-24.

 

[Kjhadfield]

Caliper adapter bolt torque spec is 83 ft/lbs. with Loctite if removed before. Use a standard SIX point socket and a short
cheater pipe for leverage, and heat the bolt heads if necessary. Regarding the bleeder screws, again use a six point socket
instead of an open end wrench. IIRC, the OEM bleeder screws are 3/8-24.

I didn't think the caliper bolts used loctite? I know it's suggested to use loctite for the bolts connecting the bracket to knuckle. Maybe I'm calling it out of name but the bolts I refer are used with the slide pins. Anyways I was playing with it and extended the bracket from caliper and the rubber boots suctioned off and I slide the bracket off the slide pins. At least this way I can spray bracket off the caliper then tape Pistons real good then attached bracket again, tape rubber boots and bolt heads and bleeder and spra the caliper. Lubing up the slide or guide? Pins, what is the rule of thumb? Is there such a thing as too much. Was thinking of adding a bit even thou they came pre lubed just in case.

Thanks on that bleeder screw, I think I had wrote the wrong wrench I used, it was a 3/8. But the socket did the trick, right on. What's the rule of thumb on tightening the bleeder, contact plus a little?

 

[swshawaii]

NO Loctite on slider bolts. Why are you removing them if you're replacing with rebuilt calipers mentioned in #20? May be too
late to return the calipers, but NAPA has rebuilt black powder coated calipers with a lifetime warranty for a reasonable price.
I paid about $60 each on line and picked up at my local store the same day. Most rebuilts are repackaged Cardone's anyway.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...e-Semi-Loaded-Remfd/_/R-SEBSE5400A_0248595328

 

[Kjhadfield]

I was only going to remove them to separate bracket from caliper to make taping/spraying easier. Ocd kick in

Yes to late on return but that would of made things easier and powder coat is much better than rattle can. The price difference would of been worth it.

 

[Kjhadfield]

Well the price has gone up to 72 not including core so that's an extra 44$. I just sprayed both brackets, will have to do the calipers this week if I get some spare time

 

[Kjhadfield]

Just got done spraying the new calipers. My ocd kicked in…yes they are just calipers and yes they probably won't be seen much on stock wheels but as with anything I do, if I'm going to do it might as well do it as well as I can. I also may have went over board…I seperated mounting bracket and sprayed that (inside/out) making sure to tape off threads/bolt heads/guide pins etc, sprayed caliper (inside) making sure to tape everything off, then re attached the 2 and taped everything off to do a final spray of the outside caliper.
This is my make shift paint booth

This is completed

All I was really looking for was to prevent future rust. I hope they last awhile to make it worth the effort and I hope I can put them on without messing up the paint before it heat cures. If next weekend permits hopefully I have new front brakes installed.

 

[mrbrett]

Looks great to me! I wish I was more patient letting paint cure. I usually get it to the dry point then start re-installing rather than waiting for the paint to cure.

 

[Kjhadfield]

Thanks. The can was a matte black but seems a little glossy, glad I didn't get the gloss black.
From the can, it says it's not fully cured until baked/heat cured whether by oven or operation. I wasnt going to bake it and it also says wait 7 days between coats if not done within an hour. My 3-4 coats on each individual part was every 10 mins (as directions say) all within the hour but when I put them back together to do the final section, I didn't wait the 7 days. I'm limited on how much time I have to work on the truck, so I have to do a little here and there so I guess that's in my favor.

 

[Kjhadfield]

Alright, so I have some last minute questions/clarifications before I do the brakes this sat.

1st I want to clarify what the shims are, those clips that seat in the mounting bracket? Seen on the 2nd photo below

Also, the Wagner pads state to NOT put any chemical on the "imi" insulator (which I'm guessing is the back plate of the pads). But also states pads with shims, so I'm confused. So do I put or can/should I put any anti-squeal on the back (The can in the 2nd photo)? I know not to put anything on the actual pad surface and if you think it's a good idea, despite what Wagner states, to put anti-squeal on the back…do I also put some on the rail or edges of the actual back plate?

And if the clips (photo below) is what's called shims, do/can I put anti-squeal on these (front and/or back)?

If you can bear with me for a few more…please
Can you believe I have never jacked up the truck with stands? Well kind of, but just the supplied jack not actual jack stands and maybe once. For the front, do I put them on the lower control arm (both front sides)? And where do I put the floor jack to lift in the center?

Since I'm only doing the front brakes can I just jack up the front and chalk the back or should I get another pair of jack stands? (and if so they go on the "axle?", while you use the floor jack on what? I read never on differential cover) I am going to flush the brake fluid, so keep that in mind regarding the back tires. I have read you can bleed the back with tires on but…

And lastly, I'm sorry, since I'm replacing the calipers I wanted to flush the brake fluid through the old calipers 1st. After I flush, should I just let it hang (while supported) until I'm ready to put the new on (just really fast) or should I clamp the hose somehow? I'm thinking just letting the old hang after the flush or after the flush change to the new right away and let them hang until I'm ready to mount, just want to clarify best route of action. I'm not sure if I'll have a 2nd person to bleed the brakes or if I'll have to try doing it myself (and bleeding is also a 1st time).

I know I maybe over thinking this some but I just want to do it right and the 1st. Time around. Thank you all for your help, I really do appreciate all the help from this site

 

[swshawaii]

Lift by the center of the frame with a short piece of wood placing the stands under the LCA forward facing "hooks". Since you are using Wagner TQ pads with molded in shims, brake quiet compound is not needed. The stainless abutment clips should be lightly lubed anywhere the brake pad makes contact with them. Good idea to flush as much fluid through the old calipers as possible making sure the reservoir never falls below minimum level. Since your calipers are new and the pistons are compressed, load the pads prior to bolting them on. When ready, unbolt and support the old caliper making sure you don't twist or strain the hose. Make sure the bleeder screws are on top, apply Loctite, and install new caliper adapter bolts @ 83 foot pounds. Have cleaning rags handy, remove brake hose, and install new copper crush washers on each side of the fitting. BANJO bolt torque is 26 foot pounds. Unless you're gravity bleeding or using a vacuum pump, someone will be needed to help you. Lifting the rear should not be necessary to bleed. Also, don't turn the wheels with the engine off to prevent aeration in the power steering system.

Great article from Wagner in case you missed it. BTW, don't remove the slide pins, they're new and lubed on the rebuilt calipers.

http://www.wagnerbrake.com/public/pdfs/TechTips-BrakeNoiseSolutions-081114.pdf

 

[swshawaii]

You can lift by the center of the axle. Use a block of wood and make sure you are NOT making ANY contact with the rear cover.

 

[Kjhadfield]

Lift by the center of the frame with a short piece of wood placing the stands under the LCA forward facing "hooks". Since you are using Wagner TQ pads with molded in shims, brake quiet compound is not needed. The stainless abutment clips should be lightly lubed anywhere the brake pad makes contact with them. Good idea to flush as much fluid through the old calipers as possible making sure the reservoir never falls below minimum level. Since your calipers are new and the pistons are compressed, load the pads prior to bolting them on. When ready, unbolt and support the old caliper making sure you don't twist or strain the hose. Make sure the bleeder screws are on top, apply Loctite, and install new caliper adapter bolts @ 83 foot pounds. Have cleaning rags handy, remove brake hose, and install new copper crush washers on each side of the fitting. Bleeder screw torque is 26 foot pounds. Unless you're gravity bleeding or using a vacuum pump, someone will be needed to help you. Lifting the rear should not be necessary to bleed. Also, don't turn the wheels with the engine off to prevent aeration in the power steering system.

Great article from Wagner in case you missed it. BTW, don't remove the slide pins, they're new and lubed on the rebuilt calipers.

http://www.wagnerbrake.com/public/pdfs/TechTips-BrakeNoiseSolutions-081114.pdf

Thanks for all that! It's the banjo bolt that gets torque 26, right? With the bleeder hand tight? Yes I'll be doing the 1 man bleed. I bought clear tubing and will get a bottle (tube in bottle submerged in fluid, with tube raised higher than bleeder) rear right/rear left/pass right/pass left. I did get a 2nd pair of jack stands (harbor freight 20$) but will try at 1st w/out raising the rear.

I actually already removed the pins when I seperated the the 2 for paint. Covering the pins took some of the lube off I'm sure, so I'll need to add lube. How much is enough or what would be to much? Thanks for the article, good read.

 

[swshawaii]

Oops and thanks, I'm going to edit that right now. Banjo bolts are 26 foot pounds, bleeders are 15 foot pounds. You don't want to break or strip the bleeder screws, usually requires retapping to a larger size or a new caliper. Bleeder screws are a very soft metal to prevent removal issues should they break off. Many tighten them by feel, just snug enough to seal. If you don't have the rubber bleeder screw caps, get some so you won't have corrosion problems later.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...e-Bleeder-Screw-Cap/_/R-NDP6751242_0375768884

 

[swshawaii]

Regarding re-lubing the slide pins, just enough silicone brake grease to coat them. You will find if there is too much grease,
they will "hydraulic" and be very difficult to compress without the rubber boot popping off. Slide pin tolerances are very tight.

 

[Kjhadfield]

Ok, I was just making sure as I know what I call things aren't the correct name…always learning something. The torque wrench I bought only goes as low as 20, so I'll just get the feel of them (bleeders) on the old when I flush and again on the new when I just double check for no air. I did get bleeder caps on the new, don't want the holes to plug up.

And thanks for that on the slide pins. I think I'm as ready as I will ever be, will post an update tomorrow night with results

 

[Kjhadfield]

Oh how should I go about bedding in the breaks or is it call break in? I thought break in was to keep from using the brakes in extreme manner for x amount of miles and thought bedding was basically slamming brakes on/off from high speed. Should I do 1 or the other or 1 before the other

 

[swshawaii]

Everyone seems to have their preferred method. I'd be inclined to follow the procedure(s) of the parts manufacturer.

http://www.wagnerbrake.com/public/pdfs/TechTips-BrakeBurnishProcedure-081114.pdf

 

[Kjhadfield]

Well I snapped my banjo bolt! So far no luck on finding local replacement, any ideas?

Thanks