Cold air intake advice!!

[masospaghetti]

Here is a multiple, back to back, averaged dyno test preformed in a climate controlled environment comparing an OEM Paper Filter VS. K&N on a Bone Stock 2013 Mustang GT:

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...ance-2012-gt-k-n-replacement-filter-test.html

And the same filter test done with a supercharger installed on the same vehicle:

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...filter-test-part-2-magnuson-supercharged.html

Does that prove or disprove anything for you?

Notice how on even 3 back-to-back runs there can be as much as a 9 HP difference.

Just more proof to back up my opinion that K&N has no credibility and that there filters are indeed trash. Even if they say "The Worlds Best Filter" and have Ford Racing's endorsement on the box!

How about the test they did with the stock 5.0 GT with the Airaid intake with a cotton cone filter? +9.2 hp:

"The 9.2 HP and 7.9 lb/ft increase was spread over nearly the entire RPM range" http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...hing-treatment-airaid-mxp-intake-install.html

Is the Airaid filter substantially different than a K&N filter? Maybe, but they seem to be similar in construction type and material. Or is the gain completely due to the intake piping?

I think this test has more validity than the K&N panel filter test which clearly has less filter area than the original paper filter.

This test also shows a cold air intake making more power in the 5.0: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...panel-vs-stock-filter-2011-mustang-5-0-a.html

 

[jay 2000]

FIND, I agree with your posts on this air filter debate. The seat dino in my truck is currently broke. LMAO! Seriously, I don't think it made it much louder. Breathe better maby? who knows. I aint driving a hot rod, just going to work. Just enjoy tinkering around. Will try to post with another tank of gas with STP gas treatment in it. Still LMAO!!! love this web site you guys are great!

 

[deweyville65]

if you all want a better air filter, why not get a Donaldson off a Kenworth or Peterbilt? Incidently, they are cold air intakes.

 

[jay 2000]

Now we are talking Deweyville, I have a Cummings fuel filter gorilla taped to my Yamaha 4 wheeler for a air filter! FIND, that was a 1.54390 gain in horsepower according to my butt dyno! everyone should try it! 'I wasn't joking about the filter and tape' it did work. The dyno comment was for fun! Dudes, cheep is fun! We aint got nothing to loose but time, and we already got the tools and stuff laying around any way.

 

[JCase]

How about the test they did with the stock 5.0 GT with the Airaid intake with a cotton cone filter? +9.2 hp:

"The 9.2 HP and 7.9 lb/ft increase was spread over nearly the entire RPM range" http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...hing-treatment-airaid-mxp-intake-install.html

Is the Airaid filter substantially different than a K&N filter? Maybe, but they seem to be similar in construction type and material. Or is the gain completely due to the intake piping?

I think this test has more validity than the K&N panel filter test which clearly has less filter area than the original paper filter.

This test also shows a cold air intake making more power in the 5.0: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...panel-vs-stock-filter-2011-mustang-5-0-a.html

Shooting from the hip here...

That Airraid intake is interesting as the insert must be installed to run properly without a tune. I don't have any first hand knowledge of coyote tuning but from what i read, just removing the emissions honeycomb from the OEM intake will screw with the ECM. I'm thinking it serves a similar purpose as the different size sample tubes do on C&L MAM's in that it tricks the ECM/MAM to register a different Air Mass reading effectively changing the fuel curve. A tune without a tune. So that may have something to do with it. Also, the kit includes a velocity stack which can substantially increase the velocity of the air entering the intake.

Yes, the stock paper filter clearly has more surface area than the K&N which must be the reason why it preformed the way it did. But even if K&N redesigned it with thicker pleats, their filtering medium (gauze and oil) is still sub-par in terms of filtration compared to paper or Amsoil's EA line.

Never said a CAI's don't make more power. Just that the stock OEM airbox is a CAI (to make it any better you would need a snorkel or ram air hood) and that installing a intake pipe and cone filter under the hood would make it a WAI.

On an off topic, side note:

I've been trying to understand why dirt track racers use K&N's and Foam filters. I've come to the conclusion that in that environment a paper filter would defiantly clog up too fast choking the engine and that its better to have a filter that allows dust to bypass but still filters particles as small as sand. The engines are being torn down a rebuilt after every race so the need to filter as much as possible is not as important as it would be in a daily driver that you would want to get 200,000+ miles out of before needing a rebuild.

But then again, IDK.

 

[JCase]

if you all want a better air filter, why not get a Donaldson off a Kenworth or Peterbilt? Incidently, they are cold air intakes.

Incidentally Amsoil markets Donaldson Filters (and yes, they are a good air filter). And incidentally an air filters medium or construction has no correlation with an intake being a CAI or not.

 

[JCase]

Try this first, replace the air filter with a new one or blow your old one out real good with an air compressor. Then drill some holes in the air box BELOW the air filter. I drilled about six 3/4 in holes in mine

Drilling holes into your upper intake plenum would be much more effective.

 

[masospaghetti]

Shooting from the hip here...

That Airraid intake is interesting as the insert must be installed to run properly without a tune. I don't have any first hand knowledge of coyote tuning but from what i read, just removing the emissions honeycomb from the OEM intake will screw with the ECM. I'm thinking it serves a similar purpose as the different size sample tubes do on C&L MAM's in that it tricks the ECM/MAM to register a different Air Mass reading effectively changing the fuel curve. A tune without a tune. So that may have something to do with it. Also, the kit includes a velocity stack which can substantially increase the velocity of the air entering the intake.

Yes, the stock paper filter clearly has more surface area than the K&N which must be the reason why it preformed the way it did. But even if K&N redesigned it with thicker pleats, their filtering medium (gauze and oil) is still sub-par in terms of filtration compared to paper or Amsoil's EA line.

I agree, there's more to Airaid's intake than just the filter, however it does make you wonder what provides the horsepower increase - the piping (and tricks) or the filter medium.

Also note on the stock new GT500, Ford uses a cone filter (although it's not obvious what material it's made out of) - surely they went with the cone in this application because it flowed better:

On an off topic, side note:

I've been trying to understand why dirt track racers use K&N's and Foam filters. I've come to the conclusion that in that environment a paper filter would defiantly clog up too fast choking the engine and that its better to have a filter that allows dust to bypass but still filters particles as small as sand. The engines are being torn down a rebuilt after every race so the need to filter as much as possible is not as important as it would be in a daily driver that you would want to get 200,000+ miles out of before needing a rebuild.

But then again, IDK.

That could be, although it seems that a paper type filter (if it was really superior in performance) could easily be made to have larger pores. I also don't know the answer.

 

[jay 2000]

JCASE, you are right but dusting my engine would not be good. Im dropping out of this one, you guys have fun! Just keep it running!

 

[FIND]

I'm not sure what the difference is with the airraid system, but SOME vehicles will benefit from an aftermarket intake. They are few and far between. My guess would be the piping is where most of the gain from that system comes from. The deletion of that ridiculous sound tube probably helps a bit too.

The reason they used a cone filter in that application is because they didn't have room for a larger panel filter. A cone filter gives them a lot more surface area. If you were to make a cut in one side and unroll the filter flat, you would make a very large panel filter there is no room for under that hood. Like I said, the only ways to increase air flow is to decrease the efficiency of the filter, or to increase surface area.

Dirt track racers use K&N filters and foam filters for a couple reasons. Most importantly, they don't need to worry about longevity. They just need something that keeps all the stuff out that will destroy their engine, and lets lots of air in. They are going quickly back and forth between partial and wide open throttle, there is a big difference in your tuning strategy when you run vehicles like that, and the pressure drop becomes an important factor. Secondly, they get sponsored to run those filters from AEM, Amsoil, K&N, etc. You don't think they put those banners or stickers on just because they are fans of the stuff? That's advertising, and if you advertise something, you get paid.

Anyway, you guys are REALLY over-thinking things now. I thought I'd stay out of this thread, but you guys were going all over the place and where not really coming up with anything.

 

[JCase]

I thought I'd stay out of this thread, but you guys were going all over the place and where not really coming up with anything.

lol.

Couldn't stay out of this thread for more than a day and a half huh?

Yeah, not coming up with anything but a decent conversation, which obviously bugged you because no one was being told off.

 

[masospaghetti]

I'm not sure what the difference is with the airraid system, but SOME vehicles will benefit from an aftermarket intake. They are few and far between.

I don't think you have the data to justify this statement.

Whether an air filter or intake system produces tangible gains obviously depends on the application - how restrictive the stock system is, how much filter area the original filter has, etc.

Like I said, the only ways to increase air flow is to decrease the efficiency of the filter, or to increase surface area.

So a K&N cone filter increases surface area and decreases efficiency - therefore it must flow better. We agree on that. Whether it translates into actual power gains on an Explorer...the only hard data that we have is K&N's, which you dismiss outright.

They are going quickly back and forth between partial and wide open throttle, there is a big difference in your tuning strategy when you run vehicles like that, and the pressure drop becomes an important factor.

Whether its a dirt track racer or a street car at WOT they will have the same pressure drop. Horsepower gains are always measured at WOT anyway.

Anyway, you guys are REALLY over-thinking things now. I thought I'd stay out of this thread, but you guys were going all over the place and where not really coming up with anything.

Have you really come up with anything better?

 

[Mrhobby100]

hahahahaha

 

[FIND]

lol.

Couldn't stay out of this thread for more than a day and a half huh?

Yeah, not coming up with anything but a decent conversation, which obviously bugged you because no one was being told off.

Holy crap, sorry I answered your questions. I didn't want to leave some of the stuff you guys came up with standing as is because I didn't want someone else to come across this thread later and become misinformed. Plus, I thought you guys might have actually wanted to know. I am sorry that I assumed you guys wanted to know anything about cars, tuning or the like. Next time I will remember that you just want to remain ignorant of these kinds of things.

I don't know what I'm talking about, have any background in engineering, or have experience in tuning, so I'm going to complain that the one person here who does is wrong. I also don't understand the things you are telling me, so I am going to respond to a few things out of context because I believe that your answer here disproves your earlier statements.

There, fixed your post.



God you people are some whiny little brats. All you do is ***** when you someone tells you you are wrong about something or answers your questions. Grow the hell up and quit getting butthurt over things. If you can't handle people responding to you, then stay off the internet and in your mom's basements.

 

[masospaghetti]

Holy crap, sorry I answered your questions.
God you people are some whiny little brats. All you do is ***** when you someone tells you you are wrong about something or answers your questions. Grow the hell up and quit getting butthurt over things. If you can't handle people responding to you, then stay off the internet and in your mom's basements.

Says the guy who's resorted to name calling and personal insults. The irony is thick. The only one here who can't handle themselves is you.

 

[JCase]

Agreed, believing anything in the absence of proof is ridiculous....

I'm not going to believe things until people prove them wrong, I test things, and gather evidence. The material I presented represents a very small sample, but is a proof of concept.

So based off your reasoning, this post:

Holy crap, sorry I answered your questions. I didn't want to leave some of the stuff you guys came up with standing as is because I didn't want someone else to come across this thread later and become misinformed. Plus, I thought you guys might have actually wanted to know. I am sorry that I assumed you guys wanted to know anything about cars, tuning or the like. Next time I will remember that you just want to remain ignorant of these kinds of things.

There, fixed your post.

God you people are some whiny little brats. All you do is ***** when you someone tells you you are wrong about something or answers your questions. Grow the hell up and quit getting butthurt over things. If you can't handle people responding to you, then stay off the internet and in your mom's basements.

Proves this...

Says the guy who's resorted to name calling and personal insults. The irony is thick. The only one here who can't handle themselves is you.

..this..

This is getting old FIND is gonna do the same thing he does in most peoples threads tell them it wont work and then argue with everybody about why only he is right.

..and this?

Yeah, not coming up with anything but a decent conversation, which obviously bugged you because no one was being told off.

I must say, your right again FIND by proving everyone else right.

HA! Triple Irony!

 

[Chargers21]

Well because of all the great info everyone shared, I am now a proud owner of a Mac air intake

 

[Chargers21]

Well because of all the great info everyone shared, I am now a proud owner of a Mac air intake

Wrong thread, my bad

 

[FIND]

So based off your reasoning, this post:



Proves this...



..this..



..and this?




I must say, your right again FIND by proving everyone else right.

HA! Triple Irony!

Yeah, lemme know how that works out for you.

 

[Mrhobby100]

Well because of all the great info everyone shared, I am now a proud owner of a Mac air intake

And in the long run a cold air intake was purchased. lets see what FIND has to say about it.


(I think you will be happy with that intake) pics please and maybe a vid clip.