Front Air Bag suspension possibilities

[scruff]

OK, so in an ultimate world the 2nd Gen Explorer would be popular enough for modding that you could just buy a kit off the shelf and fit it and have a slammed ride.
But it's not.

Soo, I've been thinking and collecting ideas on how to collect enough bits and pieces from various places to get bags inthe front without losing 4WD or AWD.
I'd love peoples feedback on this, it'll be a big pain in the ar$e to assemble all this, and potentially expensive, so I might end up being an expensive guinea pig here.

I am going to make a mock up using a 4 inch tube slipped over a shock to see where the possible snags are, and if it's possible to get it all in there.

Everyone knows you can get a coilover 5 inch lift kits from RCD. This is where I'd get some top brackets, and maybe the bottoms.
Now the RCD kit is a 5 inch lift kit, and we want to go down not up, so obviously the coilover length of .....
Collapsed 14.625
Extended 19.125
Spring 12" 600#
Would be no good, luckily the bottom mount could be made more compact, and/or a shorter shock could be used.

This is all well and good but as you can see from the following pictures (thanks Gumby) there isn't much room around the stock shock tower or A arm.

The solution for this would be the upper A arm that AIM sell, according to Reserved50 it corrects upper ball joint angle and is adjustable, as well as being much wider at the top , which would help for clearance.
The shock tower itself could be relieved slightly for clearance since it's gusseted by the RCD brackets, and the RCD stuff moves the mount outwards slightly.
The bottom looks good but the Air Bag itself would have to start above the axle.

*EDIT* I was given bad info here, these bags are only 4 deflated, absolutely useless for this.

AIM sell an Airshock they call a #110 Airsleeve, and they tell me over the phone that it has a maximum diameter of about 4 inches.
It is also configurable for where the bag sits on the actual shock, and they want me to submit a drawing with dimensions on it to see if their engineers think they can produce it the way I'd need it.
This bag is also rated for a maximum load of 1600 pounds, which should put it in a good operating range with the requirement of anywhere from 600 to 800 lb springs people are using with the coilover conversions.


OK here are the pictures of the parts potentially involved.

Upper RCD brackets (thanks Gumby) note the space restriction around the A arm and shock tower.

Lower RCD bracket, note the axle positioning, and how high off the A arm the RCD bracket starts, this could be made lower if shock length needed to be longer, remember the Air Bag itself only has to be on one 5 inch (or whatever the travel length is) section of the shock, not the full height like a coilover.

Upper A arm from AIM shown on reserved50's truck

AIMs #110 Airsleeve Airshock, comes with 4.5 inches of travel, *EDIT* USELESS for this.
PIC REMOVED.

 

[gumby]

thats a good compilation of information so far. i would be interested to see some pics of the mock up 4" tube. im afraid it is gonna be too tight in there to make comfortable clearances around an air bag.

 

[scruff]

You may well be right, but until I try it we'll never know.
Unfortunately I won't get time until at least Tuesday.

If worst comes to worst and I really want to do it, I will probably end up cutting the upper shock mount off completely and making a new one, and maybe pushing the shock more upright to get it away from the frame.

I am really hoping that I can get it as close to bolt in as possible so other people can go the same way if they want.

 

[scruff]

OK, so early indications are good !

Last night a buddy and I jacked my hotrod way up off the ground and played about jacking the suspension up and down with a wheel off.
I also made a cylinder made of cardboard and wrapped it around the shock.
It was 6 high by 4.5 diameter and it actually squeezes in there ! Now granted 4.5 touches the frame, but that is just wrapping around my stock shocks. From what i can see of the RCD stuff it appears to move the upper mount outboard a little which would help a lot.

I touch a lot of pictures and will post them when I get home.
Also I plan on taking the shock out completely and making a mock version of an airshock. I think that if the upper mount was moved 1/2 inch outboard you could use a 5 inch diameter bag, which would increase options a bit.

Looks good so far though !

 

[Turdle]

Oh man,
I'm going to be watching this for sure--

 

[CDW6212R]

Ditto, and did you catch another post on the RCD thread saying that the shocks can be had with an upper shaft end, to bolt into the stock upper mount?

 

[scruff]

No I didn't, you mean on page 13 close to the bottom right ?
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186393&page=13

From reading http://airbagit.com/product_info.php?cPath=79_82&products_id=1637 they can make the airbags with either stem loop barpin or whatever, which would be great to have one less thing to buy from RCD. As noted in that same thread I think I'd still want some reinforcements and that is actually one thing I like about the RCD kit is that not only do they weld gussets into the tower, but it has holes drilled into the side and then the shock mount gets bolted in three places, once in the top where the shock stem normally goes and then twice in the side down closer to the frame rail.

I am close to buying some parts to get this moving forward. If I buy the bag seperate (just for test fitting) as this part..
http://airbagit.com/product_info.php?cPath=101_102&products_id=1701
I could also get the shocks built with these bags. BAGA-AM2 which shows as a double convoluted 4 inch diameter bag, which might have more longevity since it's not a rolling bag.
http://airbagit.com/index.php?cPath=101_102
and just get the brackets from RCD, maybe even just one side if they'll sell it to me that way, then I can get enough parts to really try it out without being too out of pocket.

I also just found these guys.
http://www.arnottairride.com/products/productDetails.asp?groupId=120
Their 125 series shock is a slightly larger diameter at 4.92 or 4.75 but it's nice that is has a metal cover over the airspring itself.

 

[CDW6212R]

Well you are going at it the right way, gradually and thoughtfully. I don't need an adjustable height, but the improvements of ride and suspension can help many. I'm hoping that a better shock will turn up from all of this research. I think that the inherent ride of these 95-01 trucks can only be helped with better shocks and springs. The control arms are fairly short, so the suspension has a hard time absorbing shocks.

 

[scruff]

OK here is my calibrated role of duct tape.

And what I did with it...

What you can't see very well in these is that even though that roll of tape was a shade under 4.5 inches, it still has nearly a 1/4 inch of wriggle room before rubbing on the frame rail, so for a 4 inch bag there is plenty of room, but I would try and find a 4 1/2 if there is such a thing.

Full down

Full up..

 

[scruff]

DAMNIT !

I just spoke to one of the engineers at AIM that help design these things. He corrected a few of the things I was told.
For a start, the #110 bag is only 4 inch when deflated, the bulge out when inflated, killing the idea of using those.
The 4 inch double convoluted bag I mentioned apparently only has a 1200 lb capacity, but because it's a small bag with a low volume he says the ride would be crap.

I also asked about their custom air shocks - they are 6 inch diameter anbd can't be made with a 5 inch bag.

So for now I have to have a rethink. I will probably get another calibrated roll of duct tape set to 6 inches and see if the upper mount could be moved far enough outwards to get everything to clear that size bag. It would mean different brackets than the RCD ones but it's still possible.


Another idea I am considering is...
Look at the picture from my last post, the one totled full down.
See the bump stop area ? It might be possible to cut into the lower A arm just there and build a pocket for a 5 inch bag and then use the bump stop mount as the upper mount.
It's not nearly as ellegant as the way I was hoping to do it, but it would retain being able to change shocks independent of the bags.

 

[CDW6212R]

There has been someone long ago here who posted pictures of his air bags at all corners. It was very bad, poor workmanship and the rear added steel bracketry was scary looking.

What was done in the front was close to what you just suggested. I think you would need to cut into the frame as much as possible to obtain height for the bag. Avoid cutting into the control arm, that area there is the most structural part. The frame at the bump stop is far less critical than the control arm, box in any hole/pocket which you cut into it. The lower shock mount that RCD uses is very good for strength without hurting the control arm. Try to do something like that for an air bag.

 

[scruff]

I'd rather cut into the control arm, it can be re-enforced pretty easily, and anythingn done is easily reversible, unlike cutting the frame.
I can buy a spare set of control arms for next to nothing at a junkyard, there are some in my local pull a part right now, so I might go and grab them on my day off.

The height thing with the bag isn't too hard to manage, a deflated 5.5 inch bag can be as short as 2.5 inches and acts as it's own bump stops.

I never saw the post about someone getting all four corners done, I remember a guy installing a big C notch in the rear and that having some screy looking welds, but I never saw a completed front setup.
I'll look and try to find it, but if you come across it let me know.

 

[reserved50]

I dont get it, run hydros ?. How about air shocks? http://catalog.tenneco.com/monroe/p...?product=MA776&height=384&width=763&locale=en , first drop the truck to the lowest you want to go.

im sure they make some for the appropriate ride-height ( about 3" shorter than stock), good for a 4" drop before needing to chop the frame

 

[slammedxonair]

run air cylinders or make a hoop up over the frame and mount ur bag to either the upper control arms (need to build new stronger ones) or run a bar down to the lower countrol arm