Fuel pump issue???

[410Fortune]

Bouncing Smiley = fixed?

 

[Turdle]

Yup--all fixed.
Thanks Jamie

 

[rocket 5979]

Bouncing Smiley = fixed?

Nope, it means that he would like to stomp on it. :

 

[Turdle]

Nope, it means that he would like to stomp on it. :

There was a moment there--let's just say I was frustrated--

 

[rocket 5979]

There was a moment there--let's just say I was frustrated--

It happens bro....Iiiiiit happens.

 

[Turdle]

Well friends--
My truck was running, had heat (yes I changed heater core also)

Going back to original problem--engine cutting out. Remember, this was occuring before I replaced fuel pump and heater core--

Well, Saturday I moved my truck out of the garage (it started right up) so I could help a friend work on his vehicle--and it hasn't started since.
I first thought I had knocked some debris loose and clogged my fuel filter--new one installed--no go.
Fuel pressure is good at 43psi--and it does fluctuate a bit during cranking, so the injectors are firing.

I have spark, and what seems like too much fuel. I did get it to stumble once, then after recharging battery, I got real good intake backfire--
I connected my timing light, cranked engine and the light flashes-I did not verify ignition timing though--
I cleaned all spark plugs--they smelled like gas. Now, after cranking and troubleshooting for few days, I have gas in my oil. The level is up over full line, and it smells like gas---I believe this is from improperly timed fuel pulses washing down cylinder walls---also--I noticed the oil pressure doesn't come right up like it should. Maybe the thined oil isn't satifying the pressure sensor?
Today I am taking a break from it--my back is wrecked and I don't feel like splitting wood to keep it warm enough to work out there--

I need to calm down now, and get into a methodical approach to troubleshoot this--but I think my PCM is capuut---
cam synch signal?

worse yet--I wonder if the keyway has sheared from my crankshaft timing sprocket---this is next step. I am going to check cam position sensor alignment. If it is off-the timing has jumped--I don't think this is the issue though, as it was first an intermittent problem.

Ok guys--I am open to ideas here--

 

[410Fortune]

well lets see last time you had something like this you got a 347 is it 460 time?

Kidding!!

Compression test?

I am with you on the leakdown, too much fuel causing the fuel in oil, obviously you are getting too much fuel, or no spark.

 

[jah81592]

Test the primary and secondary sides of the coil!

 

[jah81592]

Speculating that you aren't firing then I would also check the voltage coming into the pos side of the coil and check for grounds.

 

[Turdle]

Well,
I finally got some firewood together and got my lazy butt out to look at this thing--
First was to drain the fuel-ummm-oil from the oilpan, changed filter.
While my oil cap was off, I connected my remote start switch in place of the starter relay and bumped it--thr rocker arms moved, so the timing chain is not broken.
I removed #5 spark plug, installed my compression test guage, cranked it, cold and washed was 190 psi---
hmmm? so I removed the fuel pump relay, turned key to on, hooked my timing light up and it indicated spark, which was also on time. hmmm?
I then emptied my bad oil back into the 5 qt jug--it is full and I have about a quart still in pan--it was very thin, and gassy smelling--a small amount thrown into my woodstove went FOOOM!
hmmm?

For giggles, I replaced the relays, turned the key and she fired right up---
All I did was change the oil!!!!!

Why?????
The only thing I can figure-is the oil was washed from the previous fuel pump issue-causing it to be too thin to satisfy the oil pressure sender--doesn't this cut the ignition or something?
I wish I would have learned something here--or worse-maybe I will.


Besides a small coolant leak on my heater core hose (fixed I think) there are no problems. No CEL--runs fine and smooth--

I change my oil often---in fact this oil had maybe 1000 miles on it

 

[Dan Whitaker]

I think you need to find a preist and have him do an exorcism.

 

[410Fortune]

very odd, keep an eye on the plugs and check the oil soon

 

[Turdle]

I have a question?

I have an Aeromotive bypass style fuel pressure regulator, fuel rails and 42lb injectors--
I have asked this before, and was told, my regulator allows the fuel pressure to drop, once the engine is shut off--
Reason I ask--it always has--since 2004, when I first ran this engine.
I turn off engine-fuel pressure drops to 0.
I am certain I have no fuel leaks

Is this normal, or am I on to something here??

injector leaking????? If this is so, it has been happening since they were new--
How to be sure?

 

[jah81592]

Well,
I finally got some firewood together and got my lazy butt out to look at this thing--
First was to drain the fuel-ummm-oil from the oilpan, changed filter.
While my oil cap was off, I connected my remote start switch in place of the starter relay and bumped it--thr rocker arms moved, so the timing chain is not broken.
I removed #5 spark plug, installed my compression test guage, cranked it, cold and washed was 190 psi---
hmmm? so I removed the fuel pump relay, turned key to on, hooked my timing light up and it indicated spark, which was also on time. hmmm?
I then emptied my bad oil back into the 5 qt jug--it is full and I have about a quart still in pan--it was very thin, and gassy smelling--a small amount thrown into my woodstove went FOOOM!
hmmm?

For giggles, I replaced the relays, turned the key and she fired right up---
All I did was change the oil!!!!!

Why?????
The only thing I can figure-is the oil was washed from the previous fuel pump issue-causing it to be too thin to satisfy the oil pressure sender--doesn't this cut the ignition or something?
I wish I would have learned something here--or worse-maybe I will.


Besides a small coolant leak on my heater core hose (fixed I think) there are no problems. No CEL--runs fine and smooth--

I change my oil often---in fact this oil had maybe 1000 miles on it

JT I was all around it with check the coil and wiring to the coil.

 

[Turdle]

JT I was all around it with check the coil and wiring to the coil.

Really--please explain. I am at a loss here.

What about my regulator James???

 

[rocket 5979]

I have a question?

I have an Aeromotive bypass style fuel pressure regulator, fuel rails and 42lb injectors--
I have asked this before, and was told, my regulator allows the fuel pressure to drop, once the engine is shut off--
Reason I ask--it always has--since 2004, when I first ran this engine.
I turn off engine-fuel pressure drops to 0.
I am certain I have no fuel leaks

Is this normal, or am I on to something here??

injector leaking????? If this is so, it has been happening since they were new--
How to be sure?

In a return fuel system the fuel pressure will always bleed off to 0 psi at the regulator. However, that does not mean that the entire fuel system will need to be reprimed (unless your system doesn't have any fuel check valves), it just means that there is no built up pressure because it is all released through the return line that goes back into the tank.

Think of an FPR like a controlled kink in a water hose. As you kink the hose a little tighter the pressure builds up in the pressurized side of the hose proportionally to the amount that the hose is kinked. If you keep the hose running and keep the kink in the hose the same then the water inside the hose will remain at a given pressure. Once you turn that hose off there is still water in it but not trying to push out anymore. The last of the pressurized water will bleed off and the rest of the water will just sit there until the hose is turned back on to push it out the end again. A FPR operates on the same theory. A boost/vacuum referenced FPR like yours does that and also measures boost or vacuum in your intake manifold to keep fuel pressure drop across injectors at a constant.

Pressure drop across injectors ("injector delta" for you tuning types) is usually more of a concern when running a boosted application because if you have a fuel system that normally runs 40 psi of fuel and it is pushing that 40 psi of fuel into an intake manifold that is seeing 10 psi of air pressure (pushing back on the fuel) then your essentially only getting 30 psi worth of fuel flowing into the manifold and thus will run lean because of it. The boost reference port senses manifold pressure and acts very similar to what FMU's do and restrict the return fuel port proportionally in a typically 1:1 ratio of fuel pressure : manifold pressure.

I probably didn't need to talk much about the stuff contained in the last paragraph but you know me.



Now allot of returnless fuel systems will hold some pressure in them due to the fuel already being pressurized and not really having any place to go, unless the returnless fuel pump doesn't have a check valve either. Allot do have checks though.

 

[jah81592]

Rocket-don't forget to note(because we know how people take simple words out of context)that the regulator will bleed off in a return style system but only after a certain amount of time. Now this time is generally noted in the factory specs. If it(pressure) immediately zero's when the key is shut off then you either have a bad injector(s) or a fuel pressure regulator. When you have a bad regulator or injectors more than the pressure is bled off you bleed fuel so everytime you startup you will have to reprime the system hence...longer cranking before startup.

 

[Turdle]

Rocket-don't forget to note(because we know how people take simple words out of context)that the regulator will bleed off in a return style system but only after a certain amount of time. Now this time is generally noted in the factory specs. If it(pressure) immediately zero's when the key is shut off then you either have a bad injector(s) or a fuel pressure regulator. When you have a bad regulator or injectors more than the pressure is bled off you bleed fuel so everytime you startup you will have to reprime the system hence...longer cranking before startup.

Well I have a bad injector then, it immediately dies off.

It is all coming together now---fuel in my oil--

OK, what now? If I have a leaking one, how do I determine which, and, can they be repaired?

 

[Dan Whitaker]

It should throw a code for a cylinder misfire if one is bad. I don't think you can repair them.

Are they stock or did you put larger ones in when you stroked her

 

[Turdle]

I have brand new (in 2003) from Ford Racing (Summit) 42lb flow matched injectors.
The green ones with "new style"spray bungs--they have around 10k miles on them, but I am sure they behaved this way from the beginning- -pressure drop off. I always thought my oil smelled a bit gassy when I changed it, but cammed engines sometimes do this--

no cylinder misfire codes---