given up on sport - loss of power

[Brian41]

I'm a new ford owner and I was so excited for this car, but going to have to sell it and I'm devastated. I joined the forum a few weeks ago after just purchasing a 2015 sport with 39,000 miles on it. I have since posted a couple times about it running sluggish. I then posted about taking it to the dealer and they said everything checked out fine, they suggested it may have had bad fuel.

I then put several tanks of premium gas through it and no improvement. It also started making a dull humming noise, mostly at WOT. I compared it with a friend's 2016 sport and he agreed it was not running at 100%. His did not make the noise.

I took it back to the dealer and told them there is no doubt it is not running right. They came back and said it had too high of octane which is retarding the engine power and that I should run 87 only. I then posted what they said on here, as that did not make sense. Many on here agreed that is absurd. I then complained to the service manager who agreed that the ecoboost should run better on premium and that his mechanics forgot they were dealing with an ecoboost when they made that statement. He offered for me to bring in back in and I declined.

I just took it back to the dealer where I bought it, (much further away) and they said they have a mechanic who allegedly is a guru on the ecoboost engine and will look at it. He came back and said he cannot find anything wrong with the car. All the diagnostics show it is running as it should. He said the boost levels are exactly where they need to be. He thinks the humming noise is the wastegate on the turbo and said it is normal. I never noticed that sound till the car started acting up and my friend's sport does not make it.

So I left the dealer starting to think I am crazy. At the time of writing this, I drove the car for about an hour and the best way I can describe it, is the vehicle has lost it's "punch". I initially didn't want to buy a sport until I drove one, and I was shocked at the power it had. It would plant you in your seat. My car no longer does that.

I have given up. I do not know enough about car engines to figure this out further. There are no codes or check engine light ever. Dealerships keep throwing that in my face that it checks out fine on the diagnostics, but they won't pop the hood. They drive it and say it seems to be accelerating fine to them, but I know if they don't own a sport, the loss of power is not going to jump out at them.

I've ran out of dealerships in my area. I am 100% positive the car has something wrong. I can't believe I am getting to the last resort of selling it. Any last suggestions? I'm desperate at this point.

 

[Odrapnew]

Bring it back to the dealer and take them for a test drive to show them. Have your friend "conveniently" show up at a stop light at the same time as you. Give her the beans and show them the performance issue. This would, of course, be done only in Mexico on a closed course.

I saw your other thread, but don't remember the details. Have you tried all terrain modes to see if there's a difference between them?

 

[TwinExes]

Im not an ecoboost guru, but I have three in the driveway. Here goes.

It is imperative that all of the plumbing/hoses are tight. I found the best way to get to the majority of the hose clamps is by taking out the air box. Remove the two 8mm bolts, loosen the hose clamp and disconnect the MAF. It then lifts out. There are something like ten hose clamps in the system. Maybe four passenger, and six driver side? Make them snug but keep in mind the other side is plastic.

While you're in the neighborhood, check the trans fluid. Our last four Gen 5's were over a quart low off the lot. You'll have to reinstall the top half of the air box so it runs. Warmed up and level.

Lastly, my 16' Sport absolutely prefers Shell 93 octane. Big difference between the BP 93 down the street and any 87, 89 or 91 octanes.

Hope something here helps and sorry your dealer won't even open the hood

 

[JoshP]

The comment about high octane retarding timing is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in my adult life. That "mechanic" shouldn't be allowed to touch any job besides oil changes and tire rotations.

I agree with the direction TwinExes is going - it really sounds like a boost leak to me based on your description of the sluggishness and humming noise at WOT. No scan data is going to tell you that, especially at idle in a dealer parking lot. You'll need to (or have somebody else) hook up a smoke machine to determine if that's the case or not.

But in the meantime, follow TwinExes advice and ensure all clamps are tight, and do a good visual inspection of the intercooler and all of the boost hoses.

 

[613GT500]

One more thing you can try OP, is get your ExSport on a dyno.
Results will obviously be less than the advertised power which is measured at the crank, but you should be around 280hp/320tq; as per numbers I see from other owners who with a stock ExSport.

 

[Brian41]

The comment about high octane retarding timing is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in my adult life. That "mechanic" shouldn't be allowed to touch any job besides oil changes and tire rotations.

I agree with the direction TwinExes is going - it really sounds like a boost leak to me based on your description of the sluggishness and humming noise at WOT. No scan data is going to tell you that, especially at idle in a dealer parking lot. You'll need to (or have somebody else) hook up a smoke machine to determine if that's the case or not.

But in the meantime, follow TwinExes advice and ensure all clamps are tight, and do a good visual inspection of the intercooler and all of the boost hoses.

thanks for all the replys, definitely some good ideas to try. Here where I'm so confused. The mechanic said he drove it with a diagnostic tool hooked up that measures boost. He said if there was an issue with the boost leaking, he would have seen that in the numbers. He said my boost numbers were almost near text book perfect which is a lot better than he normally see and within normal range. That made sense to me, but now I don't know what to think, because it also makes sense that it is losing boost as you guys say.

 

[peterk9]

thanks for all the replys, definitely some good ideas to try. Here where I'm so confused. The mechanic said he drove it with a diagnostic tool hooked up that measures boost. He said if there was an issue with the boost leaking, he would have seen that in the numbers. He said my boost numbers were almost near text book perfect which is a lot better than he normally see and within normal range. That made sense to me, but now I don't know what to think, because it also makes sense that it is losing boost as you guys say.

Did your friend actually drive yours to compare it to his? Also, although I'm no mechanic I'm guessing that even though the 'boost' is in the normal range, it may be that it isn't being fully transferred to the drivetrain/wheels. Maybe it's not the engine that is the problem.

Peter

 

[Sgt1411]

I know you have a ton of suggestions being offered here but here goes.

The 14/15 model years had throttle body issues, even some in the 2016MY, I just got my 16 Focus back from dealer as I reported poor power and stumble/hesitation. Sure enough they replaced the throttlebody.

The other issue is the PTU, the factory fill on some of those years was a quart short, especially in Sport and PIU models because they share the same water cooled PTU the other models dont. Checking it is almost impossible so I suggest a complete flush and change. There is an outstanding thread here with pics done by a member with way more skill and patience than I have.

Transmission plays a role in performance, I suggest a baterry disconnect, minimum 20-30 minutes. This will reset transmission and re-learn to your driving behaviour.

Worth trying at this point as it seems like you have done everything else.

 

[TwinExes]

Sounds like boost leak. My fleet of 80+ PIU's have had a few PTU failures and they have been immediate stoppage, like stepping on the brake, and ridiculous noise. My wife's' platinum had a weird hesitation and almost every hose clamp on the intake/intercooler was hand tight. Spent some time and tightnened them all up. All is well.

 

[machine4321]

thanks for all the replys, definitely some good ideas to try. Here where I'm so confused. The mechanic said he drove it with a diagnostic tool hooked up that measures boost. He said if there was an issue with the boost leaking, he would have seen that in the numbers. He said my boost numbers were almost near text book perfect which is a lot better than he normally see and within normal range. That made sense to me, but now I don't know what to think, because it also makes sense that it is losing boost as you guys say.

Heres my take , a slight boost leak may not cause a loss in power how ever with electronic wastegates used in cars now it will do its best to hit target numbers regardless if there is a leak or not. Wastegate will not be opening as far as it normally would and you may be hearing the turbos over spinning or wastegate fighting the pressure (trying to make up for the loss of pressure from a leak). Could just be the leak is small enough it hasnt thrown a code for wastegate yet.

As far as power loss, pressure is pressure I guess but its possible the turbos are having issues do to overworking maybe. But thats a bit of a stretch I guess.

I would also buy one of those cheap bore scopes from china and have a look down the intake ports if its possible and check for carbon buildup.

 

[machine4321]

Oh, any chance you have pulled the battery cable off for a bit? Might be worth a shot just to see if it makes a change

 

[Brian41]

Oh, any chance you have pulled the battery cable off for a bit? Might be worth a shot just to see if it makes a change

ironic you said that, before I took it in the last dealer, I diconnected the battery for an hour and the sport ran great after that. But after as couple hours of driving the power started to fade away again.

 

[Brian41]

Im not an ecoboost guru, but I have three in the driveway. Here goes.

It is imperative that all of the plumbing/hoses are tight. I found the best way to get to the majority of the hose clamps is by taking out the air box. Remove the two 8mm bolts, loosen the hose clamp and disconnect the MAF. It then lifts out. There are something like ten hose clamps in the system. Maybe four passenger, and six driver side? Make them snug but keep in mind the other side is plastic.

While you're in the neighborhood, check the trans fluid. Our last four Gen 5's were over a quart low off the lot. You'll have to reinstall the top half of the air box so it runs. Warmed up and level.

Lastly, my 16' Sport absolutely prefers Shell 93 octane. Big difference between the BP 93 down the street and any 87, 89 or 91 octanes.

Hope something here helps and sorry your dealer won't even open the hood

I took your advice and removed the air box and although I did not know exactly what I was looking for, I just started tightening any hose clamp I could see. I ended up needed to use a ratchet for some of the really hard to reach hose clamps and Im concerned I may have over tightened with the ratchet, I tried not to get too crazy with it. All the other hose clamps that were easily accessible with a screw driver I tightend down pretty snug to where you would have to put some decent force to go much tighter. Again Im concerned I may have gone to tight as I dont have any experience with how tight these should be. I do think I was able to get the hoses tightened to both turbos. I adding shell 93 tomorrow, I think it is running stronger, I just hope these hoses dont fail from being overtightened. Thanks for your help.

 

[reserved50]

Ya have to check every single clamp, they will all be loose, some more than others, just takes one.

What you can do is tighten a clamp that is easy to access with a screw driver then try it with a ratchet so you have an idea how much force you need to apply. Usually have to raise the vehicle safely WITH JACKSTANDS to get at all of them or get a shop to do it.

 

[Turdle]

Is there any chance a brake caliper or emergency brake is not releasing?
silly I know, but things like this can easily be overlooked.

 

[Jerm123]

thanks for all the replys, definitely some good ideas to try. Here where I'm so confused. The mechanic said he drove it with a diagnostic tool hooked up that measures boost. He said if there was an issue with the boost leaking, he would have seen that in the numbers. He said my boost numbers were almost near text book perfect which is a lot better than he normally see and within normal range. That made sense to me, but now I don't know what to think, because it also makes sense that it is losing boost as you guys say.

I have a 2016 explorer sport and I have been experiencing similar symptoms. I changed out the spark plugs and ignition coils at around 100k miles and discovered the hose coming from the turbo near the firewall had wet oil around ever clamp point. The leak isnt enought to notice when checking the oil and it won't drip onto the ground, but im almost positive ill have to go through and check all hoses in the system before looking any further into the issue. Obviously some areas in the system aren't properly sealed anymore.

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum.
One of the issues the 2016 Explorer had was with the throttle body. Have you checked it? 2016 Explorer Throttle Body Problems

Peter