I'm trying to plan my SAS... choosing axles.

[5.0]

Check out what I want to do and let me know if it sounds possible. And just a quick question first... anyone have 35's with 4.10 gears? How does it do accelerating and cruising at 70 mph?



I plan to SAS my '97 XLT 5.0 AWD, preferably using some axles I already have and swapping in a part time t-case. The swap will be done using leaf springs in the front. The rear must have some sort of traction device, the front can remain open.

I want to use the Sterling rear and D44 front from an F250. From the axles I have listed below, does this sound like a good choice?

The X will be used mostly on the street and see some mud a few times a month, and drive through some flood water to get home during the rainy season. I'd like it to still be somewhat quick on the street. I'd like to have disc brakes on the rear. It may occasionly tow a trailer. I want to run 35's or 36's with plenty of lift (no trimming). I need to keep the frame up off the ground, so the "big lift" concept doesn't bother me.



These are my choices for rear axles (measurements are approximate). I have also listed some things I like/dislike about each:

Sterling 10.25 from a late 80's or early 90's F250, 4.10 ratio with Trac-Loc. WMS to WMS is 65.25"
Pros - very strong, 4.10 gears may work for my application, limited slip works good, decent ground clearance, big brakes.
Cons - heavy, 2.75" narrower than the front I want to use.


9" - I have 3 of these from late 70's trucks, 3.50 ratio, open diffs. WMS to WMS is 65.25"
Pros - lightweight and good ground clearance.
Cons - need re-geared, need to purchase a locker ($$$)


Chevy 14 bolt, 3.73 ratio, open diff. WMS to WMS is 67"
Pros - very strong, Detroit Lockers are cheap, disk brake swap is cheap and easy.
Cons - heavy and horrible ground clearance.


D60 from a late 70's F250 - I don't like this axle really, therefore I'm not considering it.







Choices for front axles:

D44 hi-pinion from a late 70's F250, 4.10 ratio. WMS to WMS is 68"
Pros - dual piston calipers for great stopping power. 4.10 ratio may work. Already has leaf spring perches.
Cons - wider than what I would like.

D44 hi-pinion from a '75 F100, 3.50 ratio. WMS to WMS is 66.125"
Pros - narrower than the 8 lug front
Cons - lug pattern doesn't match the rear I want to use. Would need to weld on some spring perches.
This axle has the welded on radius arm mounts, so I can cut them off and weld on some new perches fairly easy.




Here are some pics of the axles I have to choose from:

.

 

[section525]

For a good inexpensive swap, narrow the HP D44 with 4.10s, then just swap your current 8.8 for one with 4.10s from the factory. Run some 5x4.5 to 5x5.5 adapters on the rear and call it good. Same axles as FROADER's rig.

 

[FROADER]

From your choices I would use the first D44 listed and the GM 14 bolt. I don't think the 4.10s will be low enough.

section525 did the leaf swap so look for his build thread. He also did the 1354.

410fortune, mountaineergreen and a few others have done the 4406 swap.

IZwack used a 14 bolt in his build.

There is a ton of info in this particular forum. Good luck. :thumbsup

 

[5.0]

For a good inexpensive swap, narrow the HP D44 with 4.10s, then just swap your current 8.8 for one with 4.10s from the factory. Run some 5x4.5 to 5x5.5 adapters on the rear and call it good. Same axles as FROADER's rig.

I'm uncertain of the reliability of the 8.8 turning 35's. And the narrowed front axle makes it hard to find replacement axle shafts for emergency repairs since stock shafts won't work. It sounds like a good option instead of going full width, and if the cost of narrowing the front axle isn't too much, this may be the route I take.

From your choices I would use the first D44 listed and the GM 14 bolt. I don't think the 4.10s will be low enough.

section525 did the leaf swap so look for his build thread. He also did the 1354.

410fortune, mountaineergreen and a few others have done the 4406 swap.

IZwack used a 14 bolt in his build.

There is a ton of info in this particular forum. Good luck. :thumbsup

Thanks for the names... it makes it easier to find info instead of searching for topics.



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[FROADER]

The 8.8 has no problems turning 35. I've had 35s on both of mine with no problems at all. There are guys on here with 38s with the 8.8.

If you're keeping it "narrow" wheel adapters and gears is a lot easier/cheaper than swapping out a whole axle and regearing it.

 

[5.0]

It would be nice to keep it narrow so it doesn't get much attention from the cops.

I'm thinking that the 4.10's would work (barely), but I wouldn't be happy with them. 4.88's or 5.13's would be nice (if available for the 8.8).

 

[FROADER]

They are both available for the 8.8. My d44 was narrowed 6" to EB width, and I have the 8.8 with wheel adapters. Check it out here

Also look up Jefe.

 

[james t]

You might as well plan on a gear swap, because you will HATE the 4:10's with 35/36's even with the 5 liter.

 

[FireZapper]

First depending on the state your from, full widths on the road means HUGE flares.

If you use the 250 44, the axle shafts are harder to find in the yards. You can't use the 150 ones.

I would get a dana 60 for the front. V8 and 36's will snap shafts. Unless you go alloy and harden joints.

As for the rear. I would also keep the 8.8 but make it a super 8.8. That gets you hardened shafts, and the outers are drilled for 4.5 and 5.5 wheel stud spacing. Plus it also makes the axle 1 1/2" wider.

If it was me. I would narrrow the F150 44, get early bronco or wagoneer harden shafts. The find a set of shafts in the yard for spares. Take the 8.8 and make it super. Run 5x5.5 rims. Put 4.88's or 5.13's in the pigs and call it done.

The 5.13's will give you alot of torque on and offroad.

 

[5.0]

You might as well plan on a gear swap, because you will HATE the 4:10's with 35/36's even with the 5 liter.

The 5.0 seems kinda slow to me with the stock 3.73 gears and 235/75-15's... I would imagine that 4.10's would 36's would seem VERY slow. I think I'll plan on some 5.13's

As for the rear. I would also keep the 8.8 but make it a super 8.8. That gets you hardened shafts, and the outers are drilled for 4.5 and 5.5 wheel stud spacing. Plus it also makes the axle 1 1/2" wider.

If it was me. I would narrrow the F150 44, get early bronco or wagoneer harden shafts. The find a set of shafts in the yard for spares. Take the 8.8 and make it super. Run 5x5.5 rims. Put 4.88's or 5.13's in the pigs and call it done.

So, I can narrow the front housing to the width of a early Bronco front and then use stock-size early Bronco inner shafts?

I remember reading somewhere on this forum where someone bought some 5.5 bolt circle hardened shafts for an 8.8 and had their rotors drilled for the new pattern, but I forgot to save the page. I'll search and see if I can find it again.

Anyone know about how much it would cost to have a front axle narrowed?



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[FireZapper]

Most people narrow the passenger side tube only. This will cause you to have a custom passenger side shaft and the stock 150 drivers. This will also move the pig under the engine. If you take and narrow both sides (cut off "C's") and have it narrowed to the EB or Waggy size you can use stock shafts.

 

[wanderer351]

..alright...the sterling is stronger than any of the axles listed..just shave her a bit for some clearance..an 8.8 is nearly as strong as the 9..NEARLY..so thats a toss up on what you want..any of these axles will handle 37's without too much drama..the sterlings are being used with 40+in tires without any problems..

on the fronts...the 250 44....its just a stock 44 with 8lug rotors..alloy shafts availabe...HOWEVER..your stock brake master cyl will NOT have enough fluid running through it to stop the dual piston calipers on this axle..you'll need to swap to a f250/350 master in..and if oy go with the 15in rims you'll need to grind your calipers to clear...

the f100 44 will be plenty up to 37's without too much damage..and alloys are also available for them...and you can get adapters to use the stock 8.8 rear and go to fullsized rims (5 on 5.5 bolt pattern) from Bob Meyers..

and for 36's your gonna want either 4.56's for daily driving with highway..or 5.13 for trail duty..



OH....get the upgraded universals for EITHER the 250 or the 150 shafts..they fit 44 AND the ranger/explorerTTB35..same U-joint for all 3 per the guys at napa..(theyre listed in my build on here).

and as for narrowing...in my OPINION...its pointless to do a solid axle swap and NOT go for the extra width..it will make your rig way more stable than stock..if you want to just go for an upgrade from stock...just get the upgraded joints for the stock 35 and go with them...

 

[sn0border88]

I would get a dana 60 for the front. V8 and 36's will snap shafts. Unless you go alloy and harden joints.

As for the rear. I would also keep the 8.8 but make it a super 8.8. That gets you hardened shafts, and the outers are drilled for 4.5 and 5.5 wheel stud spacing. Plus it also makes the axle 1 1/2" wider.



The 5.13's will give you alot of torque on and offroad.

Dana 60 is definatly the best, but not always needed.

As for making it a "super 8.8"... why waste the money? You have a 14b which is all around stronger than a super 8.8, and it matches the bolt pattern of the best front end that you have and it matches the width. You cant ask for more than that. Its a piece of cake to convert it (14 bolt) to disks, and you can shave the bottom of it to add 1.5-2" of ground clearence.

I have 5.13's and love them, for trail only its the way to go. As for a on/off road truck, 4.56's may be happier. Which is awsome caus alot of 14b comes with 4.56's.

Im all for the 8 lug d44/14b combo, stong as needed for the 36-37's, no aftermarket parts needs, or custom shortened shafts (makes it easy to find spares) what mroe can you ask for?

And you mentioned needin a locker for the 9", well 9" lockers are probably the ceaspest ones you can find. Spools are next to nothing (got mine for 100) and detriot lockers go on ebay for $200 something when the nascar teams replace theirs.

And fullwidths are the shiz

 

[5.0]

Thanks guys for the additional info.

I'm thinking I may use the F100 D44 and a 9" rear. I have some 3/4 tread 38.5" Ground Hawgs for a 15" wheel... and a 15" aluminum wheel will fit the 1/2 ton axles.



I also have an IFS Suburban I want to SAS, and the F250 D44 and Sterling axles would be perfect for the swap.

Still thinking...

 

[sn0border88]

that f-100 is drum brake, you will want to convert it to disks before doing anything. Dont even think of keeping the front drum brakes.

 

[5.0]

Ya, I plan to have discs front and rear. I have 2 more coil sprung D44's, one is from a '78 F150 and the other from a '79 Bronco, so I can use the knuckles out for the disc swap from one of my extra axles.

I already have four of the NP205 transfer cases and would like to swap one of them in also, but I still need to search and see if it's possible to get a VSS to swap onto it.

 

[GJarrett]

The 5.0 seems kinda slow to me with the stock 3.73 gears and 235/75-15's... I would imagine that 4.10's would 36's would seem VERY slow. I think I'll plan on some 5.13's

You don't need to go that far unless you want to. You'll be very happy with 4.88's.

 

[Shooter_68]

Nice do you own a salvage yard ? I wish I had this kinda stuff at my disposal instead of old 386 computers laying everywhere . Anyone know how to makae a lift kit out of old computer cases ?

 

[section525]

I can do wheelies with my 4.88s and 35s. Your 4r70w will like the 4.88s just fine.

 

[5.0]

I can do wheelies with my 4.88s and 35s.

I would get in so much trouble if I could do wheelies!

Hey section, would it be alright to borrow your front crossmember idea if I don't come up with anything else? Your build thread is what really got me interested in my SAS. I have an idea for my own design for the front x-member, but I'll have to get the tape measure out and see how it will work.

Nice do you own a salvage yard ?

Ya, sort of. It's like my own personal salvage yard . I have no neighbors, lot's of ground, and quite a bit of storage area. I've parted out many trucks in the past and still have quite a few good parts laying around.