Jakee's 4.0 SOHC Build up discussion and motivation thread | Page 32 | Ford Explorer Forums

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Jakee's 4.0 SOHC Build up discussion and motivation thread




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As you know I'm going for power.

Don't take offence cuss I mean no harm but; On the dyno, and looking at max HP, it doesn't look good. However, I can't help but notice the torque curve down low with the headers. So, if you two we're to line them up right after the dyno what to you suppose would of happened? I'll bet my right nut that you would have been staring at a rear bumper. Now, I know you're not in this for the power but I'm pretty sure I'm correct here.

Rocket - Can U look at the two charts (One with headers, the other without) and tell us your opinion?
 






Aldive - Did u have an E-Fan during this dyno?
 












I'm going to try out the Gibson steel/Chrome plated headers. These are cheaper so if the gain is not big I won't lose much money. We'll see what happens.
 












There's always something when you're planning...

If you use a M90 supercharger you can't use the underdrive crank pulley. I thought I could get away with this by finding a smaller pulley on the charger but it looks like there is none. Not sure about this anymore.. Oh well, I'll figure all this out later when I'm done..
 






There's always something when you're planning...

If you use a M90 supercharger you can't use the underdrive crank pulley. I thought I could get away with this by finding a smaller pulley on the charger but it looks like there is none. Not sure about this anymore.. Oh well, I'll figure all this out later when I'm done..


You could try to run a "piggy back setup", the piggies being the charger is dedicated to its own belt and your accessories would be on the stock setup. This would be an excellent time to know a creative machinist as this would probably be a custom setup! Or you could just go turbo and would not have to worry about slinging belts off and underdriving and all that! (Had to throw that one in there to mess with you)You would just have to have a dial boost (like mine) and instant boost increase! Good luck!-James:chug:
 






James - There u are! damn, long time no talk too. I left you a voice message bro.

As u can tell I'm indecive as ever. I'm gonna do this, oh nevermind I'm doing this now.....Wait a minute, I change me mind again...HEHE

I think of myself as a creative machinist. Problem is I have none of the tools I need like a Mill or lathe at my house. I've had some custom work done at work but you know how that goes.

James - I drove thru alabama last week. I was thinking about giving you a call but needed to get the family back home. It's gonna be a long drive back up their!
 






What about this....

If the underdrive crank pulley is 20% underdriven the all I need is a 20% smaller pulley made for the charger pulley? Anyone know the formula if this isn't correct?
 


















There's always something when you're planning...

If you use a M90 supercharger you can't use the underdrive crank pulley. I thought I could get away with this by finding a smaller pulley on the charger but it looks like there is none. Not sure about this anymore.. Oh well, I'll figure all this out later when I'm done..

Big deal about keeping the underdrive crank pulley when running an M90. YOUR TURNING THE ROTORS ON A SUPERCHARGER, but your worried about parasitic loss from not being able to run an underdrive pulley??? What you lose in underdrive power gains your making up for in belt grip on that larger crank pulley... Because the larger the crank pulley the larger your supercharger pulley can be for any given amount of boost. The larger the charger snouth pulley is means that you have more belt grip which means less boost dropoff in the upper rpms. Without proper belt grip for that supercharger you will suffer much larger losses of power than the underdrive crank pulley could make up for. Even an Eaton @ 8-9 psi will slip if the crank to snout pulley ratio is not sized properly, especially with a 6 rib serp setup.

Jake, I would not mind analyzing two dyno graph comparison made of a before & after scientific test of stock manifolds vs. headers.

The comparison of charts you present to me do not show before and after on the same vehicle with similar conditions. Even when comparing two VERY similar vehicles with similar mods there are just too many variables remaining to really make any scientific assesment of whether (and how much) power was gained at peak or under the curve. Analyzing graphs on the same vehicle under slightly different atmospheric conditions will play havoc with a graphs relative accuracy, let alone with the mountain of variables presented there.

With all that science talk out of the way here is my take on these things. Plain and simply headers will give a vehicle more average power/torque, whether it be peak or under the curve, than one with stocker manifolds. If a header company does not see any gain from a header configuration then they will not market it. There WILL be a power gain if a header company as respectable as JBA offers a header package for a vehicle. However, the gains may not be large, they will be there. Jake, don't expect a mountain of more torque but expect something.
 






I don't like that solution.

Sorry Jake, but it is the only realistic one that caters to relatively all of your current and future needs, which is MAX POWER. Read my above post for my reasoning behind this.
 






Big deal about keeping the underdrive crank pulley when running an M90. YOUR TURNING THE ROTORS ON A SUPERCHARGER, but your worried about parasitic loss from not being able to run an underdrive pulley??? What you lose in underdrive power gains your making up for in belt grip on that larger crank pulley... Because the larger the crank pulley the larger your supercharger pulley can be for any given amount of boost. The larger the charger snouth pulley is means that you have more belt grip which means less boost dropoff in the upper rpms. Without proper belt grip for that supercharger you will suffer much larger losses of power than the underdrive crank pulley could make up for. Even an Eaton @ 8-9 psi will slip if the crank to snout pulley ratio is not sized properly, especially with a 6 rib serp setup.

Jake, I would not mind analyzing two dyno graph comparison made of a before & after scientific test of stock manifolds vs. headers.

The comparison of charts you present to me do not show before and after on the same vehicle with similar conditions. Even when comparing two VERY similar vehicles with similar mods there are just too many variables remaining to really make any scientific assesment of whether (and how much) power was gained at peak or under the curve. Analyzing graphs on the same vehicle under slightly different atmospheric conditions will play havoc with a graphs relative accuracy, let alone with the mountain of variables presented there.

With all that science talk out of the way here is my take on these things. Plain and simply headers will give a vehicle more average power/torque, whether it be peak or under the curve, than one with stocker manifolds. If a header company does not see any gain from a header configuration then they will not market it. There WILL be a power gain if a header company as respectable as JBA offers a header package for a vehicle. However, the gains may not be large, they will be there. Jake, don't expect a mountain of more torque but expect something.

Thanks rocket. I feel the same as you here. James feels the same as well.
 






Sorry Jake, but it is the only realistic one that caters to relatively all of your current and future needs, which is MAX POWER. Read my above post for my reasoning behind this.

I have to listen to you being that you're doing this type charger.
 






Okay guys, I said I would be honest with you so....

The removal of the pre-cat's really didn't do much now that I've had more time to analyze. However, the removal of the main cat's did something. (I did that first)

Now with the pre-cats. I said I didn't lose any low end torque however.....this is what I'm facing;

The truck FEELS like it pulls harder AND off the line launches feel okay (Like I didn't loose anything) However, when I time the thing (Yes its not accurate with a stop watch but it should be real close if I can consistently come up with the same numbers over and over?!!), I’m back up to around 7.8!!!!

So, I guess I need to add a high flow cat OR is there something else affecting my results that I'm not thinking bout?

Suggestions please but I don't feel like being flamed today so be nice.

Okay - I think it was the weather. I'm back down to a low 7sec 0-60. I'm gonna try and get a vid today with sound.
 









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