Long-Travel Suspension

[BislamJoe]

Your list sounds pretty complete. I've been told that the D44 has the same u-joint as the D35 (a 297?) so that wouldn't be an issue, but with the D44HD or D50 it may... but those are probably big enough that I'd lose a lot of clearance. I'd be installing it myself for the most part, so that'd be a good bit less for me. I'd spend that money on either paint/fiberglass/tires or tools and parts. As far as the gears go, I've got a good buddy who can do gears, so it'll just be parts on that. I think I'm leaning towards 4.10 gears... though I like my gas mileage, so 3.73 may still be my final ratio. Another option on the gears would be to leave your front driveshaft off until you could afford the gears? I might do that if it looks to costly to do the gears right away. Also, you said "a little more" than the Perry's work, how big a difference? The D44 may not be a good option for you, since you're staying with the V6, but I'm swapping in a V8 (and a fairly stout one at that) so I might need the extra strength of the bigger differential.

Another thought struck me: I'm not terribly fond of lots of body roll. Now, with the coilovers, could I leave the swaybars off and still not have an undue amount of sway? Or do I need to add another shock up front if I want to run with no swaybars? I'd probably mount the coilover to the I-beam and the other shock to the radius arm. Or should I just give up on having it all and get some quick disconnects?

 

[sirhk100]

That body roll question would probably be a good one to post on the race-dezert page. I've heard that you will get more body roll out of a dual rate coilover then with a single rate coilover or a normal bucket setup. The reason is for instance if you want to jump the HELL outta your ride you get like a 400-500lb coil for the bucket or single rate set up. This is a stiff setup and you won't have any body roll. Now with the dual rate coil Perry mentioned that you would stack two 600lb springs on top of each other. This would equal a 300lb spring until they started compressing all the way up to 600lbs at full compression. That light initial spring rate may cause a little body roll. This is caused because the middle where the two coils meet isn't fixed. It's hard to explain but just think about it and you'll see why. If you took two coils and stacked them on top of each other they would initially be half as strong and gradually get stronger as they compress due to the middle point that moves.
Perry's suspension with the coilover should be right around $3180 out the door for coilovers.
As for the dual shocks, trust me, you won't need two. The shocks we're talking about are so incredibly beyond what you're expecting you'll be blown away. A rancho vs. a 2.5" King reservoir is like comparing a mustang to a porshce. They're both nice cars but one is WAY better. Think about the abuse those trucks see in a 500 mile race and they only run two shocks per wheel in fact they aren't even two of the same shocks. they have different duties. Now if we were REALLY rich we'd be talking about coilovers and a bypass shock but we aren't. Look at all the prerunners out there except for the real race teams like Herbst and Collins and I'll bet that out of all of them that are running reservoir setups 90% of them are running a single reservoir. 9% are running a reservoir and a bypass (these are the rich guys or the people that fab their own equipment so they just have the cost of parts like the camburg explorer that I linked to earlier), the other 1% are running dual reservoir and probably don't understand why their truck rides like ****.

 

[BislamJoe]

I may just fab up a swaybar with quick disconnects. I'd probably need to pull the swaybar for a bigger rig and adapt it... Or I could just quit my *****in' and live with it... I won't be jumping my truck, at least not regularly or hard, so that's not really an issue. It'd be nice to have a relatively smooth ride off-road and on though.

 

[Randall]

Are there any online shops to purchase these remote resevoir shocks you guys keep talking about? Would they be good for rockcrawling? What kind of handling can you expect out of them?

 

[BislamJoe]

If you go back through the thread, you'll find mention of lots of online guys. I imagine it would be cheaper from someone other than the fab shops, but I don't know of any parts suppliers who would have them. As for rockcrawling, I don't see why they would be a bad choice.

 

[sirhk100]

Any of the shops posted near the begining of this thread or you can buy direct from King Shocks

As for rock crawling, yes they work fine. If you look through the magazines at the rock buggies most of them are running either Sway-A-Way or king coil overs. If you need a real long travel shock this is the way to go but they aren't cheap!! I think you can get shocks with 18" of travel. I plan on building mine with 14" travel shocks.

 

[Randall]

There are no prices at the Kingshocks.com site, about how much would one expect to pay for a pair of 2-1/2" remote resevoir shocks with about 14" of travel? Also, since the shocks use spherical bearings, can they be used with standard shock mounts, or does something else need to be fabricated?

 

[sirhk100]

I called king and SAW. I asked them for a couple different options. I think the price is the same no matter the length. And yes you would have to fab some kinda upper shock mount. I've seen some home made ones that looked pretty simple. They litterally cut the stock mount part of the bucket off, plated it for reinforcment and built right off it.

King
2.5" w/10"stroke $300/each
2.5" coilover with coils and everything, 14" stroke $550/each

SAW
2.5" w/10"stroke $315/each
2.5" coilover with coils and everything, 14" stroke $585/each

Again, these are VERY high performance shocks. They can be rebuilt and custom valved by the owner to give what ever performance you're looking for. You won't need more then one per wheel. Also like said above I'm pretty sure the price is the same for any length, but don't quote me on that. I got the king prices straght from King and the SAW were from a distributor cause they won't sell to public.
Khris

BTW from what I've found out and understand, King and SAW are identicle to the point where many of the internals can be used on either or. It's just a matter of price difference, cutomer service, and color. I personally like the looks of the blue shock and it's a little bit cheaper. Also King is closer to my house then SAW so support is probably easier to come by.

 

[Randall]

What about the Bilstien 7100's?

 

[sirhk100]

I'm not sure about the bilstien 7100 series. I just know that it's their mid level racing shock. Knowing Bilstein it's probably an awesome shock. I'd call to see what the details and performance level you can expect out of them.

 

[BislamJoe]

Just bumping this back up - It's got a lot of really useful information for anyone looking at building up their TTB.

 

[Randall]

Are the 2" coilovers worth looking at? what is the difference as far as how much abuse they can withstand, and just all around performance between the 2" and the 2.5". In particular the sway aways, which is what I have been looking at.

 

[BislamJoe]

If you're using it on the rocks, I'd think that the 2" would be fine, since you're not going to be moving as fast or probably developing as much heat. But, if you plan on using your truck in the desert and the rocks and the mud and the trails (you get the idea), like I do, the 2.5" may be a better choice. I don't recall how much cost difference there is, I'll go ahead with the 2.5" coilovers, maybe eventually add a 2" shock mounted to the radius arm, but that'll come later. Unless it's a lot more expensive, I'd just go ahead with the 2.5". I'm looking at SAW, but if Kings will be cheaper, I'll probably go with them.

 

[Randall]

I was thinking of running dual rate sway away coilover resevoirs and rancho RS9000 shocks. I would make the mounts for the rs9000's quick-disconnect like for removal on the trail. I would basically just be using the rs9000's on the 5 (stiff) setting for the road, since I don't run sway bars.

 

[BislamJoe]

That is actually a very good idea! I had worried about body roll, and that might be my solution! If I can get enough travel from the rs9000's to not disconnect them, I'll just run 'em on 4 or 5 on the roads, then go to the lower settings on the trails. I'd hafta play with it, see which settings work better in which situations. But seriously - the idea with using the Rancho's for body roll limit, that is awesome.

I really wish Khris would jump in here - he know a lot more about this than I do.

 

[BislamJoe]

Paul - you still gonna have 6" with that setup? Sounds really nice, anything you can let slip about the rear suspension? I think I'm going to mimic the Autofab Bronco for the rear suspension. Are you doing a 3/4 link or what? I'd like to know more about the steering setup you're doing. As I mentioned, a D44 TTB is looking more and more like my best choice. My project is a ways down the road still, so I'm still open. What are you doing about the steering though? I started a thread about this, but never got any replies.

 

[sirhk100]

Paul,
I still havn't heard anything from Winter. I'll have to check out your setup when it's done!!!

As for the body roll control I honestly would just through on a swaybar with quick release links that you'd just pull when you hit the dirt. One thing though is that around here I have yet to see any rangers with a coilover front end running a sway bar. I think you need to realize that if you want to build something to bomb around in and take the abuse of offroad you're going to have to give up the sports car handling unless you got some serious cash!!

As for the 2.0 coilovers, they'll work great for rock crawling but like Bislam said, they will heat up if you put any long term use on them. For instance 15 miles of straigh 65mph dirt road running not slowing down for any bumps, whoops, or jumps.

 

[BislamJoe]

Heh - yeah, I know. I can't have my cake and eat it, too. Since it's all a ways down the road, I may just leave a provision for some bodyroll management device. I think a swaybar is pretty much out of the question. But that's ok - I don't really need great handling, it is an SUV after all.

 

[sirhk100]

BTW, I joined a race team last night. It's a husband and wife team that's just looking for dedicated volunteers to help prep/work on the truck, chase/pit at races, and co-drive or navigate. He's got a nice shop and said as long as I put in the hours and show dedication to the team he's cool with me using his equipment. Check out his truck, he's also on Race-Dezert username JCA.

www.andrewsracing.com

 

[BislamJoe]

That's really cool man. I would love to move out to SoCal just for a summer to do that. I don't even know how much is going on during the summer with the race teams and all.