Maximum Traction Solution - 4th Gen Differential Tech

[Ronin8002]

I haven't been home since the end of May (on a trip for work) and won't be getting back for another 2 weeks . I miss my truck.

anyway, when I get back I will first need to finish breaking in the new gears. Once that is done I'll begin testing mileage as I described there.

 

[The Electrician]

safe trip and wish you luck

God speed

 

[King of So Cal]

Well I went by my local auto shop and told the guy I about gears and the Torsens.. And he was all trying to talk me out of it and said to get a front Detroit Truetrac diff with a Detroit rear locker. He didn't seem to understand about the brake control system that our trucks have...

 

[Ronin8002]

Nothing wrong with the truetrac/detroit combo either. You could lock the rear axle on your truck with no issue...but then you miss out on the cool advantage of brake traction control with a torque biasing limited slip, i.e., not having to drive like you have a rear locker when you are on the street.

 

[King of So Cal]

Yea, and the one he said to do is locked all the time..

 

[The Electrician]

one thing, ford 8.8 Detroit locker for gear ratio 4.56, 4.88 and 5.13 require some modification for install. as it mentioned in Eaton Differentials Application Guide page 4 & 11

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_128302.pdf

and TrueTrack works in the same principle as TORSEN. Both are helical LSD

 

[Ronin8002]

Yea, and the one he said to do is locked all the time..

I think either way you would be happy with the result.

The full locker like the detroit or an aussie would always be locked when on the gas (still unlocking in turns when light on the gas or coasting). The truetrac would rely on the traction control to lock up; or you could use a light application of the parking brake to lock it up.

either way the effect is pretty much the same. Except with the truetrac on the street you have the ability to power around corners without scrubbing your tires much.

 

[xplorerguru]

About to order the rear trutrac... just figuring out how to go about installation. Did you install the master kit and trutrac yourself or did you have someone do it? If you did it did it come with instructions on how to take diff apart and back together?

Thanks a ton!

 

[The Electrician]

The removal and installation it is similar to 3rd gen. the only deferance is: there is no ABS ring and sensor within the differential, they are located in the Hub Assemblies in each wheel

read this detailed thread written by Ronin8002 that explain how to take the rare diff out

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318076


This is the Truetrac OWNER'S MANUAL:

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_128482.pdf

and this is the RING AND PINION SET INSTRUCTION SHEET:

http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-4209-8.pdf




also these files might help:

http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5717.pdf

http://www2.dana.com/pdf/AXSM-0053.pdf

http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5325.pdf

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_128313.pdf


Best wishes

 

[Ronin8002]

About to order the rear trutrac... just figuring out how to go about installation. Did you install the master kit and trutrac yourself or did you have someone do it? If you did it did it come with instructions on how to take diff apart and back together?

Thanks a ton!

Unless you have the right tools and know how to set up ring and pinion gears, I would take it to a differential/driveline shop in your area to have them do it. Should run around 300 bucks.

EDIT: That price would be if you drop the diff out yourself. Obviously labor cost would be higher if they had to remove/reinstall.

 

[xplorerguru]

Unless you have the right tools and know how to set up ring and pinion gears, I would take it to a differential/driveline shop in your area to have them do it. Should run around 300 bucks.

EDIT: That price would be if you drop the diff out yourself. Obviously labor cost would be higher if they had to remove/reinstall.

Holy crap! 300 for just opening the diff and putting in the LSD? im not regearing at all, no need to with just 265-75-16 and 3.73's.

Thanks electrician! helped out great!

 

[Ronin8002]

It's not "just" putting in the LSD. The whole carrier has to come out so it can be replaced with the truetrac, which means that the gears do too. When you do that, the gears need to be set up again as if you were regearing basically. The installer might be able to re-use some of the shims and stuff, but if you're doing bearings (you mentioned a master kit in your post) then that adds labor cost. Also, no matter what, the installer has to put in a new crush sleeve for the pinion gear, reset pinion preload, pinion depth, check the pattern, and if that isn't right, take it all apart, change out a shim, re-assemble, check the pattern again, etc etc until it is right.

That's what your 300 bucks goes to.

If you had to do it yourself, you'd likely spend at least that much in tools, nevermind the knowledge and experience to perform the above. Not saying you can't or shouldn't do it yourself, but your truck might be down longer than you want while you learn how to do it. If that's not an issue, then go for it.

Here's a post showing some of what's involved in setting up an 8.8. Not exactly like putting together Lego's:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144780

 

[diesel_s]

This is awesome, very very useful information

 

[Themightyquinn]

the pdf link for the dana p/n's show that the explorer also has a 35/194 front with CV. How do I know if my front end is this or the 30/186?

 

[rewind1]

This thread is amazing!
Since I have a 3rd gen explorer though, I still have some questions.

Before I saw this, I was leaning towards both front and rear selectables. Now, I'm strongly considering front and rear Helical for both ease and cost.

Given that I don't have AdvanceTrac,
The front and rear Helical scares me for off-roading. If I have two wheels in the air I would be stuck in a rut )figuratively and literally).

The only reason I'm still shying away from the selectables is because someone mentioned oversteer being an issue on snowy roads.,Which is the only time I would be using 4WD on the road anyway.

So now I'm thinking one Helical and one selectable locker, that way at least two wheels can be powered at any given time while off-road and I can prevent oversteer in snowy, on-road conditions. I assume, a rear locker would cause oversteer not the front.
Therefore would a front selectable and rear Helical be the best solution for someone without AdvanceTrac?

 

[The Electrician]

This thread is amazing!
Since I have a 3rd gen explorer though, I still have some questions.

Before I saw this, I was leaning towards both front and rear selectables. Now, I'm strongly considering front and rear Helical for both ease and cost.

Given that I don't have AdvanceTrac,
The front and rear Helical scares me for off-roading. If I have two wheels in the air I would be stuck in a rut )figuratively and literally).

The only reason I'm still shying away from the selectables is because someone mentioned oversteer being an issue on snowy roads.,Which is the only time I would be using 4WD on the road anyway.

So now I'm thinking one Helical and one selectable locker, that way at least two wheels can be powered at any given time while off-road and I can prevent oversteer in snowy, on-road conditions. I assume, a rear locker would cause oversteer not the front.
Therefore would a front selectable and rear Helical be the best solution for someone without AdvanceTrac?

Even without AdvanceTrac you should not be scared of using Helical LSD off-road

If you have axle twister (two wheels in the air) you only need to apply a light touch on the brake (a foot on the gas and the other one on the brake)

This will start torque biasing within Helical LDS and they will work flawlessly



But if you want to use a helical and selectable, it is better to put the selectable in the rear and the helical in front

locked front axle will cause under-steer and you wont be able to steer your ex properly

 

[The Electrician]

the pdf link for the dana p/n's show that the explorer also has a 35/194 front with CV. How do I know if my front end is this or the 30/186?

Open the cover and count how many bolts for the ring gear

Dana 30 is 10 Bolts

Dana 35 is 8 Bolts

Usually Dana 35 is used in Rangers

 

[rewind1]

Even without AdvanceTrac you should not be scared of using Helical LSD off-road

If you have axle twister (two wheels in the air) you only need to apply a light touch on the brake (a foot on the gas and the other one on the brake)

This will start torque biasing within Helical LDS and they will work flawlessly



But if you want to use a helical and selectable, it is better to put the selectable in the rear and the helical in front

locked front axle will cause under-steer and you wont be able to steer your ex properly

Thanks, It sounded like that might work but I wasn't sure since AdvanceTrac is applying braking to a single wheel and I'd be applying to all. The more brake I apply the more power that would be applied to the wheel that has traction?

I assume the same would be true for ice, If i had two wheels on a sheet of ice with no traction (one front and one rear) those wheels on the ice would spin and the wheels with traction would do nothing. But, if i applied a small amount of brake the power would begin transferring to the wheels with traction?

 

[rewind1]

Torsen Vs TrueTrac

My recommendations and conclusions regarding carrier:

The best helical LSD combination would be:
TrueTrac in front end, and Torsen T-2R in rear end.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


In the front end I used TORSEN T-2 helical LSD #975420-0831A
many thanks to Ranger Rick of Torsen.com for his help

and in the rear end I used Eaton TrueTrac helical LSD #913A561


In addition, I upgraded the axle ratio (changed the ring and pinion front and rear) from 3.55 into 3.73 in order to compensate the big tires that I use (32" LT265/70R17)

Is there a typo here or did you actually put the torsen in front and you wish you chose the other setup? What makes the setup with one torsen better than the setup with two truetracs. Would a torsen in front and rear be "the best"?

I've read that the T2Rs are better at keeping traction when one wheel is up than the TruTrac? Is this your experience?


This information is incredible, really. Thank you!

 

[Ronin8002]

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents on lunchbox lockers. If you put a spartan locker in the back you'll only have one axle to mess with, and you'll have ample traction....believe me. Never had a problem with driveability or anything. Other users on the forum who have done it to their third gens have reported that snow/slick driving isn't an issue. So just another viewpoint to consider. If you had advancetrac I'd say go with the gear driven LS units, but since you don't...the lunchbox locker is extremely effective. Never even needed one in the front, and I went some pretty gnarly places with that setup.