mercon or mercon v?

[CDW6212R]

I'd bet that it's more about the reputation(they printed all of those manuals etc.), and the Mercon V being better, more testing, and the decision to stop making Mercon.

The differences are very minor, nothing like the change from old Type F fluid to the Mercon. Those have a huge change in friction abilities, don't ever put a Mercon or newer fluid in an old Type F trans. Keep the fluid matched with the age of the transmission design. Don't put an old fluid in a later model trans, or new ATF in an old auto trans. Regards,

 

[4x4junkie]

So what's the deal with the "illegal" Mercon (not V) that's still available today from big names like Castrol and Valvoline? Maybe it's only Ford that quit making Mercon to sell under their Motorcraft brand? And if the V actually IS backwards compatible, then why does it seem to make the earlier M5ODs shift like crap and how would you avoid this (besides using the $$$ synthetics) if something is suddenly wrong with all the Mercon sold now (which I have in my '94 Ranger at the moment (Castrol), and it seems ok )

 

[dogfriend]

So what's the deal with the "illegal" Mercon (not V) that's still available today from big names like Castrol and Valvoline?

You have a good point. There are several aftermarket versions of Dextron III/ Mercon available from Castrol, Valvoline, Pennzoil, et al. Walmart offers their house brand SuperTech as multi vehicle ATF (Mercon) or as Mercon V.

Where are the Ford lawyers?

 

[CDW6212R]

The making of new Mercon is illegal, but who knows how much is still available from before last Summer. The labeling of Dexron II/Mercon should also have stopped, but you know how slow or uncaring some businesses may be.

 

[dogfriend]

Did a Google search today on this and found that some of the manufacturers are using clever wording to get around the Mercon licensing issue:

"Recommended for vehicles which originally used Mercon/Dextron III"

Note that that does not say if it complies with the (now obsolete) Mercon spec, it just recommends the ATF for the application.

Another tack: " Approved by Ford for all Mercon and Mercon V applications"

If it meets the Mercon V spec, and because Ford says to use Mercon V for all previous Mercon applications, then it is "approved by Ford" for Mercon.

I think the safest approach is to use a full syn ATF, either Mobil 1 or AMSOil Universal ATF. I am leaning toward Mobil 1 because of the cost difference. I use AMSOil in the Explorer, but the motorhome takes about 2x the amount of ATF.

 

[CDW6212R]

There are good additives like Lubegard, but be very careful in choosing those. Make sure that you end up with the proper additive for the trans, and the fluid being used.

 

[4x4junkie]

Did a Google search today on this and found that some of the manufacturers are using clever wording to get around the Mercon licensing issue:

"Recommended for vehicles which originally used Mercon/Dextron III"

Note that that does not say if it complies with the (now obsolete) Mercon spec, it just recommends the ATF for the application.

Another tack: " Approved by Ford for all Mercon and Mercon V applications"

If it meets the Mercon V spec, and because Ford says to use Mercon V for all previous Mercon applications, then it is "approved by Ford" for Mercon.

I think the safest approach is to use a full syn ATF, either Mobil 1 or AMSOil Universal ATF. I am leaning toward Mobil 1 because of the cost difference. I use AMSOil in the Explorer, but the motorhome takes about 2x the amount of ATF.

The bottles of Castrol ATF I bought maybe 2 months ago actually do say:
"Meets DEXTRON®-III and MERCON® requirements"
and on the back:
"Do not use this ATF in applications calling for Mercon V or Mercon SP"

Maybe that's saying it meets the spec without actually calling it "Mercon" fluid? (they call it "Domestic Multi-Vehicle ATF" which is different wording than I seem to remember 3-4 years ago when I bought the same stuff before)

I don't get it... Why would Ford even give a rat's ass about an obsolete fluid??? How is this different than with Type-F? I don't recall anything like this involving Type-F...
Did GM also yank Dextron III?.

I still can't see this not being the same fluid as before though (or at least something 100% compatible) from a big name like Castrol. After all, their name would be at stake if it was something inferior.

 

[dogfriend]

Did GM also yank Dextron III?.

.

Yes, as a matter of fact they have released Dextron IV which now supersedes Dextron II and Dextron III. Apparently Dextron IV does not meet the minimum viscosity at 100°C for the Mercon V spec, so you probably won't see a combination Mercon V/Dextron IV.

The whole Mercon vs Mercon V thing wouldn't be such a big deal if Ford hadn't put out all those dire warnings that you could destroy your trans (4R100) if you use Mercon V. Then they flip 180° and say its ok after all.

 

[4x4junkie]

That and the fact the V makes for crappy shifting on M5ODs that call for the old Mercon (unless they've somehow reformulated it to now be compatible... but then would it not be "V" anymore?).

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes it's an odd subject. For a manual trans it isn't at all critical like for an automatic, there it's more a shift feel and fuel mileage issue. If you like the performance that you had with the Mercon in the manual, for sure use that which works best for you. No harm will come from doing that with the manual trans. Regards,

 

[dogfriend]

When I had a Ranger with the Mazda 5 speed, I changed out the ATF and used Redline MTL. It seemed to shift better and the Redline has better anti wear additives IIRC.

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?categoryID=7

 

[nismotunedgtr]

I'm running synthetic trans fluid from Transynd. It exceeds Mercon V standards. My father uses it in all the Ford trucks and vans in the fleet he maintains and hasn't lost a tranny yet!

It's like $8 a quart though...

 

[dogfriend]

I'm running synthetic trans fluid from Transynd. It exceeds Mercon V standards. My father uses it in all the Ford trucks and vans in the fleet he maintains and hasn't lost a tranny yet!

It's like $8 a quart though...

Haven't seen that brand out where we are. AMSOil is $9 / qt,Redline is ~ $9/qt, Mobil 1 is about $7 / qt . For AMSOil and Redline, I have to go to a specialty shop, but Mobil 1 is available at most Walmart stores.

I have had good results with AMSOil in my Explorer; I have 119k and the trans is still working just as well as it did at 50k.

 

[nismotunedgtr]

Haven't seen that brand out where we are. AMSOil is $9 / qt,Redline is ~ $9/qt, Mobil 1 is about $7 / qt . For AMSOil and Redline, I have to go to a specialty shop, but Mobil 1 is available at most Walmart stores.

I have had good results with AMSOil in my Explorer; I have 119k and the trans is still working just as well as it did at 50k.

It's sold by Allison, but I think it's made by Castrol.

http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/autoapp/172/viewpage.jsp?ThisPage=4

Where my father works they buy it by the 55 gallon drum. 5 Gallons are around $135 at the local Allison dealer.... Works sweet and COMPLETELY changed the way our 1993 Mark VIII Lincoln drives! Used to have torque converter shudder, hard 1-2 shift, and somtimes a slip on WOT O/D downshift.

It's like new again now!

 

[dogfriend]

Hmmm....might look into this.....it looks like a syn version of Dextron /Mercon as far as viscosity. $135 for 5 gal works out to $6.75 / qt which is less than Mobil 1.

Probably would invalidate any warranty because it isn't Mercon or Mercon V, but I don't have a warranty on this used motorhome anyway.

The internets are inconclusive on whether Mercon V is a good idea for the 4R100. Some claim that Ford "reformulated" Mercon V so it would work with the 4R100, others claim that the friction modifiers will eventually ruin the clutch materials in the 4R100 because it was designed not to use friction modifiers. But it may take 30k miles before the trans is toast.

Its hard to trust Ford on this - my owners manual says not to use Mercon V because it can cause trans damage. The TSB just says they aren't going to make Mercon anymore, so use Mercon V instead.

 

[boggs1227]

.

 

[dogfriend]

Boggs -

To answer some of the questions that you edited out:

1. If you did a rebuild, you may be fine with Mercon V because they used updated clutch materials. I would ask the rebuilder.

2. The filter and magnet in the pan should get some of the stuff floating around in there.

3. You can mix AMSOil with any type of ATF according to AMSOil. When I switched over from dino Mercon V in the Explorer (I have a 97 that requires Mercon V) I did the 1 quart out/ 1 quart added home flush method. I used about 12 or 13 qts, so you are correct, it is expensive.

 

[CDW6212R]

boggs1227, you can delete your own post, it's part of the edit process.

 

[bbally]

I think its strange that they gave a warning that it wasn't backward compatible and now it is. I wonder why they didn't just upgrade everyone in the beginning?

I would say they had several warehouses full of old product inventory to get rid of prior to admitting it can be used across the board. Plus several fluids contracts to fill out and avoid penalties from OEM manufacturers.

Never under estimate the financial scariness of old inventory sitting on shelves to create the paperwork needed to hold back allowing everyone to use the new and improved version.

 

[dogfriend]

I was just reviewing the 1999 Ford Service Manual CD (bought on Ebay) which I got yesterday. For the motorhome transmission, the 4R100, on every single page which mentions Mercon, they explicitly warn you not to use Mercon V or dual usage Mercon/Mercon V fluids in the 4R100.

Yes, I know, they came out with a TSB, but it still doesn't give you a warm fuzzy feeling to pour Mercon V in that transmission.