MOAB EXPLORER EXTRAVAGANZA 2001

[Anime]

yeh

I think theres two "alternates" already if any of the "30" back out

 

[GJarrett]

I don't want to get sucked into this too deeply since I've already participated in several discussions about it and it gets a little old running over old busines for the umpteenth time, so this will be all I have to say, but I hope it clarifies what the issue is.

Certainly it is a free country and we cannot tell anyone not to come. But those who didn't bother to register in time and decide to show up anyway do pose an additional risk to all of the rest of the participants (who took the trouble to do it right and register) to get hit with a substantial fee. I am not sure I would want to be the latecomer that shows up for a run and has to tell 30 other people that they all just spent another one or two hundred dollars each just because of me.

I don't know if the threads still exist from last year, but several pages of discussion surrounded this issue. The resulting decision was made with much anguish and knashing of teeth but was based on the best info we have. As I have already stated, my personal wish is to make this a huge event, but we are "inbetweeners" -- too small to be big and too big to be small. The fee would kill us and result in even less than thirty being able to come. Now to answer:

1) We are a group, no matter how much we try to wink and deny it. Last year we joked about putting J**p emblems on our vehicles, coming in disguise, etc; but the fact remains that several dozen modified Explorers all showing up in Moab at the same time -- most with "www.explorer4x4.com" stickers on them -- will stand out in a tiny town (the town of Moab consists of maybe a three mile long main street with few side streets and nothing else). The area is huge, but the town is tiny. When you roll in the locals know it.

2) Contacts were made with authorities and also local high-profile guides both in Utah and California. The authorities all provided conflicting information and none could be nailed down to an exact definition of "group", nor of the amount of vehicles that would define a "group", nor of how many thousands of dollars would be an appropriate fee to charge that "group". Expert opinion from the professional guides and others all advised us NOT to contact the BLM and to just show up and try to maintain a low profile.

3) Unless and until we can get a concrete ruling on what constitutes a group, or can get so many participants that it wouldn't matter (100+), we're just trying to do the best we can.

Anime4x4, everything you said makes perfect sense and has already been said by all of us, but you forget that we are dealing with government beaurocrats who are woefully lacking in that common sense dept. That is one of the aspects that makes this entire situation so frustrating.

Like I said, this all sucks, but we're having to live with it at this point. I will say that I am planning further contact with the BLM again to see if the climate has changed in the last year. As this is being written we are still under the veil of Klintonesque landgrabbbing tyranny and I do not hold high hopes for a change of heart. It will take quite awhile for a Bush administration to effect a tangible change in the current climate.

4) The safety issue. Last year some paid out of their own pocket to hire guides and learn the trails before the run. Others arrived days early and/or purchased GPS to map out preruns. Each run needs a qualified Trailboss and Tailgunner. In Colorado we also had a medical EMT in each group. We simply do not at this time have the resources to lead a half dozen groups simultaneously on the trails.

None of this is wanted by any of us. I'd love to see 100 of us together at once. Lots of things in life ain't fair, and this is one of them. Figuring out a way to make Moab the major event has been at the top of my mind all year. Right now though, it just can't happen.

Maybe for this year we could also schedule an autumn Moab run??? Just throwing an idea out. Would require drivers willing to do the same as we did and prerun and scout trails and prepare, etc.

[Edited by GJarrett on 01-11-2001 at 09:19 PM]

 

[leebo]

A fall run at moab....I'm kinda liking that idea.

I do agree with a limit on the run. The biggest thing being the safety part of the game. I like the idea of a trained EMT with each pack. In fact I took several classes a few years back when I started driving on the trail. The problem is that there's just not enough trained people to make this happen. It's too easy to slip on a trail, or to get a nasty cut working under your truck. On the road it's a slight problem....at moab or anywhere off the highway...it's a HUGE problem. I know that I was too slow in getting everything in order and I'll miss out, but I'd rather that happen than anything happen due to too many people. I've ran the local jeep club "Hump and Bump" a few times and I can honestly say...I hated it. One of the biggest reasons being the amount of people running off on their own risking everything.

I like the idea of both a fall run as well as keeping everything small.

 

[riffman]

Originally posted by GJarrett
If you'll read the Moab book you will ....

um...is this the same book that we talked about earlier? that i STILL Don't have?! hehe....

 

[Anime]

yes

Point taken and well stated Gerald.

I'm not whining about it..I know none of that stuff is because of anyone here. I also wont show up and try to wedge myself in a group..I'm not about pi@#$ing ppl off

Perhaps any of us "stragglers" who can definitely go but didnt make the list can make their own group..and make it a big point to be on different trails than the other groups..even if we dont have a guide or EMT...perhaps we can all still hang out together later too.

I'd try to get on the list as alternate #3, but my schedule is so mixed up..I dont know whats going on for May yet..so its more "last minuite" with me until I find out what else is going on in May that I want to be at.

 

[Sinjin]

FYI....

An Isuzu friend of mine told me that he is apart of an Isuzu club and that they are having there Annual run the same weekend as us. He said there will be 70+ Isuzus there, guess this will draw attention away from our group.

 

[Dre]

All you Illinois, Ohio, Indiana, Iowa guys!!!

Listen up. I know we won't even try to make it there driving non-stop so we have to figure out where we're gonna crash for the night. I just came up with two choices for now. From Chicago to Moab is like 1350 miles so I figured that somewhere on the border of Nebraska and Colorado would be great. Two places: one in North Platte, NE, that's like 740 miles from Chicago @ $33.00 per night and another in Sterling, CO, that's 880 miles @ $49.00 per night. Can we make it all the way to Sterling? I'm figuring that it will take us about 14-15 hours to get there with all the stops. Share your thoughts on this. Some of you are even further (Ohio) so please, let's just set something so we can get rooms booked. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[riffman]

hey andre...read back a few posts....Tom was talking about a place that would probably be good..but im too lazy to quot it for you....lol

 

[Dre]

OK but Tom was talking about a place in Iowa. That's completely out of the question since it's too close. I'd go for this place in North Platte, NE. It's almost on the border with Colorado and about 740 miles from Chicago. After that we can join guys from Denver and continue on to Moab.

What do you guys think?


[Edited by Andre Hryn on 01-14-2001 at 09:56 PM]

 

[riffman]

well...originally i was hoping to get a little more than half way, so we wouldn't have quite as bad of a drive the day that we hit the mountains. and also so we could get to moab before 10 pm...the people as Silver Sage asked that if we were going to be any later than that, that we'd call to let them know.

I really don't care...im not the kind to plan out this kind of thing. Since Kampy is riding with me, im gonna make him speak for both of us...lol

 

[Dre]

Then it sounds like the place in Sterling would be better but! it's roughly a bit more then 880 miles from Chicago. Tom is even further than that. Well, let's wait for others to speak on the subject.

 

[Kampy]

Well Scott, you might not be up for it if I speak for both of us. I have a tendency to get things done all at once. I've been known to drive straight thru from here to Albuquerque on several occasions. 1200+ miles. On this occasion I agree with Andre about stopping near the CO border but I don't want to leave Tom out of the equasion either. We've still got some time to work thru this, keep thinking guys.

 

[riffman]

well..thats fine, but you get to drive the beast through the mountains in the butt crack of morning, cause i would probably kill us...ha!

 

[Perry]

Riffman,
You don't have to worry about the mountain driving. They are steep and windy so you don't go really fast except the downhill part of course. LOL

 

[Tom Wilk]

Riffman, Kampy, Andre,

I posted a couple of pages ago but this thread is growing so fast that I can't keep up with it. From Cleveland to Moab is about 1640 miles.

From Cleveland to Grand Island, NE is 890 Miles.
From Cleveland to North Platte, NE is 980 miles.

I wouldn't want to be driving much longer than that. I'll probably be leaving here pretty early Wednesday morning anyways to meet you guys near Chicago at a reasonable time. We can get this together, I'm sure.

 

[Dre]

Tom, it sure works for me. Just wondering about other guys. Do you think you'll make it to North Platte? or perhaps we should stop earlier?

Thanks,

 

[Tom Wilk]

Another alternative, at least for the trip out, would be for me to leave on Tuesday and stay just west of the Chicago area, which would chop about 350 (according to Rand McNally) miles off my travel for the next two days. I can look into moderate lodging for one night in that area. We could meet somewhere along I-80 on Wednesday morning for the remainder of the trip.

That would help us on the second day (Thursday) when we have to drive up through the mountains. Some of the hills are pretty steep, though the altitude won't effect your turbo-deisel much.

 

[riffman]

well...tom, if your that close, im sure one of us would let you bunk in with us. Im a little far south of where you would probably be stopping, bloomington, IL, but if you want to you can stay down here with me to save on hotel costs....

 

[Tom Wilk]

Riff, I'll take that into consideration. It's a bit busy here at work so I'll look at the map a little better at home tonight.

 

[Dre]

Hey Tom, you might want to consider a guest bedroom in my house. Why spend money on motels? You can crash at my place and then in the morning we'll just take off together. Think about it.