Oil

[Jeff]

Ooops. Never mind.

 

[01EB5.0]

Gerald,
I was just wondering how it's going with the milage and if you made it to the next test time yet? Igot up to 5,000 but changed the oil anyway just because I had some royal purple I wanted to put in, but I am thinking of keeping the royal purple in there longer..I am just curious to see the next results.

 

[AgExplorer]

Travis,

Would you be interested in doing some oil analysis with the purple product?

 

[GJarrett]

Travis, I've got about 1200 miles to go. I'll probably be changing the oil and sending it in for analysis around the end of the month.

It'd sure be interesting if someone else on this board decided to see what Dino oil looks like at 5,000 miles. I thought of doing that after this, but I'm sticking with synthetics from now on.
Gerald

 

[01EB5.0]

I guess I might be interested in the results. How much will it cost to do the tests?

 

[GJarrett]

Twenty bucks

Would you do a dino test at 5k miles?

 

[AgExplorer]

Travis,

I'll cover the costs the oil analysis kits if you're willing to take the time to take the samples. E-mail me and we can go over the details.

 

[JAY]

Archer Petroleum

I recently talked to my regional manager, and I am prepaired to provide the oil and cover the cost of analysis for anybody willing to do a 5k test with a dino product. There are a couple of catches though. First you must use our oil. Second, we would prefer a test vehicle similar to Geralds to make the compairisons more accurate. We would also request that you provide us with a sample of what ever you are currently using when switching over to Archer for the test so we will have a baseline of where your engine currently is.

For those who don't know, Archer Pertoleum was founded back in 1929. Archer line of lubercants cater mostly to Ranchers, Farmers and industrial contracts, people who buy in bulk. The oil isn't available "over the shelf" at auto part stores, but rather through a network of Dealers. All of Archers base oils meet Mil spec MIL-6082D which is designated for aircraft engines.

I'm sorry if that sounded like an advertisemant for Archer. It isn't, I just wanted who ever was intereasted in a 5k test to know the product they would be asked to use.

If anybody is intereasted, or has further questions please contact me directly or through this forum.

 

[01EB5.0]

AgExplorer. I e-mailed you...not sure if it worked..let me know if you get the mail. Thanks!

 

[01EB5.0]

I guess I would also run 5K on Regular oil but my engine is no where near Geralds...i only have the OHV and it's got 85K

 

[GJarrett]

15,000 MILE ANALYSIS

At 15,068 miles I went ahead and changed my oil. I now have new Mobil One and a Bosch premium oil filter in my Explorer.

Before taking this final analysis into account, remember that unless you run a taxi service with your Explorer or do a LOT of towing, I probably run mine harder than you do: 100 degree summer daily commutes, driving every day in rush hour stop-and-go traffic, interspersed with several offroad trips in 4wd low on hot and dusty trails.

At 15,068 miles my TBN is still equal to or above a new dino oil's ability to keep the engine cleaned of acid combustion/byproducts. Oxidation is still less than half used up; 41% of allowable. Nitration is two-thirds used up at 68%. Nitration and oxidation should be at a similar level so the nitration is identified as being elevated, even though still not used up. Gary has said earlier in the thread that it is probably because of how hard I drive my vehicle. As a result of the nitration/oxidation ratio the analsyis suggested I check my pollution control system.

New developments at this mileage: a notation of "silicon elevated due to to silicone lube or sealant"; and the viscosity finally inched up out of the allowable range for 30 weight oil (it's become between 30 and 40 weight oil now).

I still have the elevated levels of aluminum I always have had. I have a new theory that it may be a sign of wear and a possible future problem from the "notorious" timing chain tensioner in my SOHC.

The analysis finally suggested changing my oil now, which as I stated earlier I had already just done when I sent in the sample.

Since my onboard trip computer/message center has its oil change setting default at 7,500 miles, I think I will simply use that from now on. I would have no problem running the oil for 10,000 miles (with a 5k mi filter change mid-way) based on my analysis at that mileage, but for simplicity sake I believe I will buy premium oil filters with my synthetic oils and just leave them both in for 7,500 miles at a whack and change both then. Should I ever begin easier driving -- less stop-and-go, more highway miles -- I wouldn't hesitate to run it 15,000 miles again. Every reading I got was still way within acceptable range except my viscosity showed up slightly thicker than 30 weight. Big deal

I believe we have conclusively proven you can put more than 3,000~4,000 miles -- a lot more -- on your oil (at least we know you can if you are using synthetic), which is what the consensus opinions were once Travis started this thread.

CONCLUSION FROM RESULT OF THIS EXPERIMENT
Travis, you started this thread asking if you really can run your synthetic oil 15,000 miles. The answer is yes. Your question assumed 3,000 mile filter changes with single replacement quarts and I did it with 5,000 mile filter changes. If you are running synthetic oil, you are safe to 15,000 miles no matter how hard you drive. If you want to be very conservative you can still:

• change the oil at 10,000 miles with a filter change midway at 5,000 miles; or
• change every 7,500 miles.

We now have hard data to prove this. We no longer have to rely on conjecture and guesswork from previous habits and Jiffy Lube commercial suggestions.

I think we all owe AgExplorer a debt of gratitude for ponying up the analysis kits and enabling this study.

PS / I would still like to see someone belly up to the bar and run dino oil for 5,000 miles; or 6,000 miles with a filter change halfway through at 3,000 miles. I bet dino oil lasts at least twice as long as we think it does.

[Edited by GJarrett on 08-05-2000 at 09:01 AM]

 

[flyguy]

Wow.. all this info is great! I dont feel bad about missing my oil change now... although I have to do it anyways becuase I just had my engine open... so Ill probably do it tomorrow... but from then on... its in there for 10K! Neat. Are there any takers for the non-syth yet? Hmmm

nick

 

[Peter Weber]

Gerald, thanks for posting the results. I agree with you that it proves that synthetic oil can be run to 10K miles between changes. I don't drive my Sport as hard as you drive and am of the opinion that for average driving, dino oil is sufficient. Under extreme conditions like you described or for racing, by all means use synthetic.
Re Dino oil analysis.
I offered once before if somebody will pick up the cost of one the analysis kits. I'll pay for the other one myself. My Explorer doesn't get driven as much as Geralds. After 20 month I have only 16,500 miles on the odometer so far with over 5000 miles on attributable to three trips (Moab in May was one of them).
I'm currently running regular oil (dino) on the factory recommended schedule. Don't know the brand, whatever my dealer puts in when I bring it in for service. The same with the filter.
I'm doing this for a very specific reason, the tensioners. If I should have any problems, I don't want anybody pointing the finger at me and say I didn't follow the recommended schedule suggested by Ford.
I would test the oil at 3K (no filter change) and then run it to 5K and test again just before I take it in for an oil change by the dealer.
Once again, any takers to split the cost with me?

[Edited by Peter Weber on 08-05-2000 at 07:54 AM]

 

[SteveVB]

tensioners

Gerald

Thanks for doing all of the work, came out about as I speculated in a previous post. Thanks again for the great info.

About the elevated alum. you ascribe to the timing tensioners. I think that the tensioners wear surfaces are made from plastic (some phenolic-sp? type it looks like), I get this from the pictures in a Haynes manual- cause I have an OHV. But on my engine the tensioner and the guide are both some type of plastic.

Thanks again - look forward to reading:"OIL part II"

 

[leebo]

Just another reason why the site is one of the best around....people who are willing to bet their @$$ in order to help others. Thanks alot everyone out there.

I'll be changing my oil to synthetic at my next change.

Thanks a ton for answering a question before I ask it.

 

[AgExplorer]

Gerald,

Great summary about your latest oil analysis report. With the exception of the silicon, I would have predicted the results you received. Thank you for taking the time to do this.

Peter, E-mail me your mailing address and I will send you a couple of oil analysis kits for testing the dino oil. You will have to get the brand and weight (5W-30, 10W-30, etc.) of the oil you are currently using to get an accurate test.

For those of you interested in using synthetic lubricants(and those who are currently using them), AMSOIL makes a complete line of motor oil, drive train lubricants, fuel additives, oil & air filters, and grease for your Explorer and other vehicles. These are the finest automotive lubricants in North America, if not the world. Sept 1 we will be releasing a truly universal synthetic ATF. It will be the ONLY ATF to meet Chrysler, GM, Ford, etc. requirements for automatic transmission fluid. E-mail me or click the link in my signature for more info.

 

[Peter Weber]

Robert,
that is exactly what started this (a few months ago). We want to determine if it is really neccessary to change the oil every 3K miles, or if the manufacturers recommended interval works just as well and/or if synthetics are better and do they keep their lubricating qualities longer.

 

[SteveVB]

Gimp -reading the above- the question is why? Take yourself out to a really nice dinner on the 50% savings on oil changes.

 

[kilroy]

Aluminum in the oil

If the engine has aluminum heads, your probably getting the elevated readings from the heads. My 1992 4.6 was notorious for that, the valves would suck oil from the guides being worn, which has been corrected in later years, and the cam bearings were also aluminum. I believe the heads on the sohc are similiar in design, so that would be where the aluminum comes from, but I wouldn't get concerned, from how you seem to care for your truck, it would be at least 200K before the heads would show any wear that would be considered repair time.

I'm going to try the dino oil thing using Castrol5W30 and Moly Black Gold, which I finally found a few bottle of, and see what the results are on this 5.0.

My previous tests 5 years ago on my old Ford LTD 5.0 using Castrol and MBG were fantastic after 10K, and I went to 20K just for kicks and the results were very good, but it was HIGHLY recomended that I change the oil at that point due to elevated nitrates. As far as wear, there was NONE. Unfortunately I could no longer get the MBG and was forced to change my oil at regular intervals instead. But after partially tearing down the engine to put it into my Grand Marquis, I popped the caps and miked the crank and rods, and found them to be within .0002" of when they were originally installed when I rebuilt the engine 130K miles before. I would drag race this car, pull trailers, haul almost 2000 lbs of materials, etc in this old car before I found frame rot that spelled the end to the car.

I always used Castrol, and I started to use the MBG after the second oil change when I had 3000 on the engine, and put it in twice a year.

I'm going to try it again, and I'll post the results when I'm done. Don't forget I haul a 7000 lb trailer almost every weekend, well I will again once Firestone replaces the tires. :fire:

 

[01EB5.0]

Thank you all for all the great information. I started this thread a lot time ago and am glad it could help prove a myth about synthetic oil. I really appriciate all the time that went into these results and all the work. This site is an excellent resource and everyone here is great!