P0174 and other issues...

[danno2944]

I hate to post about a P0174 again, but here we go.
To start am aware of the lean condition procedure thread and intend to troubleshoot, just wanted to see if anyone might have some insight.
2nd owner, all maintenance records, 175000 miles, regular oil changes never missed one every 3500 miles, burns no oil.
I have neglected this issue for a while and it has gotten progressively worse I will try to describe symptoms.
It was a DD for years but for the last few years it only drives approx. 2 times a week or so.

I have had this code and check engine light for a few years and ignored it, mostly because it never had any issues at all.

The P0174 lean bank 2 engine code tripped at 55mph and 2255 rpm on the freeze frame and NEVER included a P0171 ever.

As time has passed the fuel economy has gotten progressively worse, I began experiencing hard start ups in our cold winter. So cold/hard start unusually high spike to about 2000rpms than it would drop to 750rpms like it was going to stall, than would grab on to idle at normal 1100ish cold idle and drop back down once warm to 750-800 rpm.

As time has passed that got worse, to the point that after hard/cold start to just over 2000rpms(same symptoms as described above) except now on the drop off it would go to 500rpm and bog until I gave it throttle to get it back to normal cold idle. KEEP in mind this is also intermittent between these first few symptoms described, sometimes it would start fine?

Now it finally got to the point that it would cold/hard start 2000+ rpms (same symptoms) than drop to 500 rpm and without gas stall out, but restart fine after a few seconds of throttle it would warm up and regulate itself.

As these symptoms all got worse the idle got worse with them as well, fluctuating a up and down a few hundred rpms, just kind of searching/surging

Lol, Now it stalled and wont start. The Old Explorer gave me all the signs she could, and the honest truth is I have been searching the forums frequently and assembling a parts list to do a major tune up. As I went to start truck to move to shop 50 meters away, to start work on her, she wont start, sounds like she wants too, but wont.

After a visual inspection I have noticed that there is some swelling and oil weeping on the vacuum line from the IM that comes from the Brake booster. The build up is right at the IM connection side.

The CPS cam positioning sensor on drivers side valve cover has oil build up on and around, and that same valve cover has began weeping since switching to synthetic finally last oil change,

I also have an exhaust leak at my muffler.

My original diagnosis was IM leak, So I ordered gaskets, all of them including, IM, valve covers, egr tube gasket, fuel injector grommets to service them. And the regular maintenance that needed to be done, PCV, fuel filter, trans filter, spark plugs and all fluids, etc. Also was going to do typical IAC and MAF cleaning.
If there is any thing I forgot let me know.

Any help is appreciated guys, I am going to go try to start once more, that will push to shop if needed to start work.

 

[danno2944]

I just checked battery and it was at 75% from yesterday, It is reading 12.4 volts when charged in a balmy -6 Celsius.
Did milked it from trying to start? Not so much, I am experiencing loss after each start up attempt. It isn't a daily driver as mentioned, it has dealt with 2 winters as not being a daily. Cold weather and lack of use must have toasted the battery in a year and a half..

So I got a boost, Nope, turning over the same way as the battery, not starting.

Very hot and sunny today, letting hood sit open in sun and will give her one more try than I guess I am pushing...

 

[Turdle]

Clean the battery posts and cable clamps real good. I know this sounds elemental but even good looking posts can be dirty enough to cause this. The cable ends are a bad design and have to be connected perfectly to work well IMO.

Also, it sounds to me like the fuel pump died a slow death.

 

[danno2944]

I had cleaned the battery very well and charged it up, switched to boost mode after it warmed in the sun and it started relatively quickly, but wanted to stall same symptoms.

The previous P0174 was erased from the battery issue so no engine light..

I held down the throttle for about a min at 1100 or so rpm than eased off and she ran on her own.

All the threads I have read show P0174 lean bank 2 and P0171 showing up together which is why emphasized in the original thread that it was odd that I had only a P0174.

So I checked codes and had a pending code P0172... it is lean bank 1 this time, never had that code before?
P0172 and P0171 are the same?

Test drove it and it drove really well better than the last few runs.. go figure...
I needed to pick up some of her parts, drove her about 50 km round trip. about 20 kms of trip were highway at 60mph.
I restarted it 4 times during different stops and the start ups were Great??

Not even the hard cold starts that I had mentioned before,( Keep in mind it is not cold at all today, and the vehicle obviously didn't cool down.
Started normal and idled around 750 with some fluctuations but not a lot.

I Picked up the fuel filter and gaskets other parts and topped up fuel with some fuel system cleaner. I need to take a trip tmmrw if she starts, it should its warm again. than I will pop the fuel filter in right away and she how she does.
I am still doing gaskets and tune up etc because it all needs a freshening up in my opinion, plus weepy DS valve cover is getting bad. I just wish I knew what was going on, still leaning towards IM gakets, but the fuel consumption is still bad.

After entire trip Codes/Engine light would not trip again, maybe tmmrw.

I did manage to take pictures of all the live data from the obd2 scan, and I will be uploading them tonight

Have pictures from the OBD2 live scan when it finally restarted, after warm up, and from after the longtrip. The next few posts will show the data, I am going to upload pics...

 

[danno2944]

ugh, unfortunately my phone is not cooperating with the pics.... So I will enter the data as it appears on order from the obd2 scanner in live scan mode.

So first as a reminder I lost the last freeze frame for the original P0174 lean bank 2 from battery issue. The freeze frame from the P0174 initially I do not have, but I do remember that it was 55mph at 2255 rpm and that the fuel trims were definitely very high on the long term fuel trims. Also no P1071 as per norm with this code.

Initial Start up after warming a few mins No Error codes showed up but I did have a pending code which is the P0172 rich bank one.

This is the error as it appears. And remained the only pending code after trip as well.
*IT APPEARS TO BE A ERROR AFTER INITIAL START UP WHILE HOLDING DOWN THROTTLE TO KEEP FROM STALLING FOR A MIN.

DTCFRZF P0172
FUELSYS1 CL
FUELSYS2 --
LOAD PCT(%) 32.9
ECT(F) 123
SHRTFT1(%) -21.1
LONGFT1 -19.5
SHRTFT2 -9.4
LONGFT2 -14.1
RPM 1261
MPH 0

NEXT IS LIVE DATA IN THE FOLLOWING ORDER. MOST OF THE DATA WAS FLUCTUATING ALOT UNTIL AFTER TRIP WHEN NUMBERS STABILIZED BUT IDLE WAS NOTICABLY LOW.
FIRST NUMBER IS AFTER RESTART AND BRIEF WARM UP
SECOND NUMBER IS 5 MIN AFTER WARM UP PERIOD
THIRD NUMBER AFTER 45KM TRIP AFTER 4 RESTARTS FUEL UP AND FUEL SYSTEM CLEANER ADDITIVE.
FOURTH NUMBER IS DATA FROM AFTER DRIVING WITH NEW FUEL FILTER ABOUT 100KM.
FIFTH COLUMN IS AFTER GARAGE START WARMED UP FOR TEN MINS AFTER LOGGING APPROX 350KM.
LIVEDATA 0
FUELSYS1 CL
FUELSYS2 --
LOAD_PCT(%) 38.0 38.4 37.6 37.6 38.4
ECT(F) 141 145 141 140 136
SHRTFT1(%) -7.8 -2.3 -3.1 1.6 -2.3
LONGFT1(%) -25.0 -25.0 0.0 3.9 10.9
SHRTFT2 (%) -1.6 1.6 -2.3 0.8 -0.8
LONGFT2(%) -10.9 -10.9 3.9 10.2 13.3
RPM 680 664 658 677 706
VSS(mph) 0 0 0 0 0
SPARKADV(DEGREES) 17.0-18.5 JUMPING 20.0 18.0 18.5 17.5
IAT(F) 44 53 37 46 62
MAF(lb/s) 0.01 0.01 0.01 0.01 0.01
TP(%) 18.0 18.0 18.0 18.0 18.0
O2SLOC B1S12--B2S12--
O2B1S1(V) 0.660 0.680 0.675 0.080 0.760
SHRTFTB1S1(%) -6.3 N/A -0.8 3.1 0.8
O2B1S2(V) 0.820 0.775 0.735 0.800 0.810
SHRTFTB1S2(%) N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
O2B2S1(V) 0.745 0.760 0.205 0.565 0.705
SHRTFTB2S1(%) -5.5 N/A 2.3 -2.3 -0.8
O2B2S2(V) 0.710 0.660 0.520 0.585 0.710
SHRTFTB2S2(%) 99.2 N/A 99.2 99.2 99.2
OBDSUP ODB2

SO AFTER TRIP THE FUEL TRIMS REALLY STABILIZED AROUND 0 +/- 5 AND IDLE SURGED AROUND 50-60 RPM IN THAT 650-700 RANGE. AS IDLE SURGED UP TOWARDS 700 THE NUMBERS ALL GOT CLOSER TO ZERO.

 

[danno2944]

I Can't seem to find the brake booster vacuum line to purchase anywhere? Anyone have a part #?

Also wanting opinions on IM gasket job, and if the IACV gasket and TB to IM gasket are required?

I have gotten the EGR tube gasket, IM and Valve cover gaskets.

 

[swshawaii]

4.0L SOHC Guru & Moderator (1995-01 MODIFIED Sub Forum)

How to: - Starting my 00M12 Installation

2000StreetRod's Helpful thread list

 

[danno2944]

Thanks I have seen those, I just was curious how many gaskets are required for the TB, TB gasket to manifold and the spacer to TB gasket, or how does that go?
I see multiple parts and cant really find a thread for the throttle body and gaskets specifically.

The epoxy in the MAF screw, is there a way to remove it?

I did get the fuel filter in and drove for about 100kms today still couldn't trip a lean code.
The truck started right up after installing fuel filter. I tested battery it was at 80%, not the best but operational
The throttle had noticeable enhancement in the responsiveness, so it was definitely restricting flow. Really felt it on the highway.

But the truck Still idling quite low. It is starting slightly better not the hard starts(not as cold) and idle doesn't completely
bog out but still drops off to about 500rpms than revs back to 700ish range, same symptoms.


POST 5 is updated with Data from the scanner today, the fourth numbers are from after the trip. Seeing the long terms rise.

I thought some people might have some insight on the live data from the ODB2?

There is some weird things going on
1.THE O2 SHRTFTB2S2 AT 99.2 ?
2.SHRTFTB1S2 N/A ?

 

[danno2944]

I finally have gotten all the parts in and about to refresh the old explorer, and realize I may need more..

I have read about the timing chain tensioners and am debating ordering these now for part of the maintenance I am doing here, I have never noticed the rattle/noise at start up, But IS/COULD A SYMPTOM of slack in chain and/or tensioners causing this drop off in my RPMs at start up to around 500rpm than bouncing back up to 700rpm(normal idle and sustaining) as I have written about previously, or am I worrying to much about drop in rpm at start up since it does normalize. I do think it is IM gaskets since these symptoms are amplified in the cold. Any opinions on changing tensioners?

Also just noticed that the ECTs on my POST # 5 Data logs are around 140 ECT? Seems low the thermostat is 192 F if I'm not mistaken. at first glance I thought ECT was exhaust and remembered that's EGT....dumduhdumdum
My first thought is the thermostat is stuck open since temps aren't getting to operating temps andstay around 140-145 but why is the fan still kicking on?
My engine temp gauge in dash does not work and I was going to repair but I read about the leaky housings and decided I was going to run an inline aftermarket one in the future just now I think I need a new thermostat as well?

What are symptoms of a bad water pump? Could this cause this temp issue as well, from what I know it would get hotter which are not my symptoms..

To be perfectly honest I thought I had a bad thermostat because the heat is warm but not HOT, but after feeling upper and lower rad hoses and seeing the fan come on and having old crappy old coolant(purchased new and changing) and knowing the heater cores are prone to clogging(flushing next week when temps warm up), So I figured the thermostat was good..

Thanks so much for all the help so far, I have learned much from the forum and have been studying these fuel trims to try and understand why mine are so odd and still don't have an answer, lol. I do not own a fuel pressure tester, the one tool I do not own, and am willing to buy one but I dont really feel like the fuel pressure is the issue.

I have Put about 450 kms on since fuel filter change and have still poor mileage(cold engine obviously not helping..) and long term fuel trims have risen again I will update POST 5 datalog to 5th row from data collected shortly. The P1074 engine code still hasn't tripped yet..

I also realized that a full (KAM) PCM reset is required to clear Long term fuel trims that have been learned and is more involved than disconnecting battery, ie fordtechmakuloyoutube Question is,
Do you think I should reset the ECM since cleaning the MAF(was filthy) and changing/running fuel system cleaner(was filthy) to get some new datalogs? Or should I just stop running motor since it is running so cool, I feel bad for motor already...

 

[danno2944]

Started right up in garage today, I logged some data and updated the 5th post and 5th column of data.

I used an infrared thermometer and verified the cold ECT's I am having, Idled for 10 mins and couldn't even break 140f..same ECT readings as odb2, I was worried the sensor from the housing to PCM could be malfunctioning and giving the ODB2 false temps but it all works. The temp climbed at a rate of about 2 degrees F per/min

Still unsure why the fan is engaged from start up though?