Salton Sea is back in the news - Source of lithium for batteries

[CDW6212R]

Did you discuss geothermal energy with that contractor, burying pipes in the ground and running water through them to heat or cool the floors etc? I think that is promising in many places when building a new house.

 

[BKennedy]

He said it's the same as solar. The juice is not worth the squeeze. I originally wanted the house to be self sufficient as far as power, heating and cooling goes. It's just not worth the added cost. It never pays for itself. Not in my lifetime anyways.

 

[410Fortune]

Our power in the mountains of Colorado was so expensive! We had a large house with two families but still $1200-1600 a month in winter just for power and we never used the electric heat!! That was just the power
Bill not including natural gas and water. Lowest bill we saw in summer was like $400 but those were rare.

Generating our own power here in Idaho is far cheaper, the batteries are the most expensive part. Generator can be had military surplus, solar panels can be purchased by the pallet and sell the leftovers Re coupe some cost… there are ways.
I am no fan of propane generators, the small propane engines simply do not hold up, better off with a Honda or two
Largest genset Honda makes is 7000, however you can get larger ones within Honda engines. Natural gas/propane generac is so cheaply made, I would stay away from a generac,
Seriously consider a military surplus diesel genset that will actually outlast our lifetimes

I am dabbling in wind power, And just getting plans together for a pond large enough to build some head pressure and run some hydro. It gets addicting! Sometimes it also gets old… hahahaha house came with a 20 year old system it is still “state of the art” Outback power stuff but I have had my share of issues, mostly due to faulty equipment and cheap batteries (old owner had this place on market for 4 years cut come corners)

All good now
Do not Miss the grid or those
Bills, not at all
Power is cheap in north Idaho by comparison, at least for now. The rest of the family that
Followed us up here are thrilled with the low cost of natural gas and power up here… but we saw the same thing in California in the 80s and Colorado in the 90’s… the bills never go down only up
They will never run the grid back here, not enough end users to justify the cost

 

[94Eddie]

@410Fortune How much does the cold and snowfall effect the efficiency of you systems relative to summer?

 

[410Fortune]

Cold weather means we have to burn wood and propane to keep the shop/batteries warm.
Lots of snow will stick to the solar panels even with them pointed almost straight up and down (sun is low on horizon and standing up the panels I get reflection from the snow) so I have to go out there with a 20’ pole and brush to clear the panels. I actually really enjoy this, but I’m a snow freak big into winter sports like snow machines
Where I am at in the winter sun is short so we burn a lot of diesel to make the power, road tax free diesel. However when the sun is out during the winter I have a large field in front of the solar panels and the snow acts like a large mirror even making some power under a full moon / like a large reflection pond. The lg solar panels we have now are 160w and about 25 years old, I am putting in an order for 24 new 400 watt panels this summer… that will make a huge difference in how much sun we can collect. The existing wiring and charge controllers can still handle the 400 watt panels so I am able to save some $$$ there
During winter we rely heavily on diesel fuel that is for sure, which is fine with me because previously we relied on propane and the kohler propane genset. Every winter we would burn up 800 gallons of propane and the propane genset does not like to run when it is cold… military diesel gen has no issue starting running no matter what.
A commercial generac propane genset lasted 5 years back here the new kohler that replaced it lasted 4…1100 hours is sucked a valve. My diesel genset laughs at 1100 hours with proper maintenance it will last 30+ years (yanmar 3 cyl turbo diesel, brushless Mep-804b). I have a “build thread” for the diesel genset over at steelsoldiers.com, I got is used on Craigslist and I had to learn a lot about it to get it hooked up and dialed in (3 phase, old setup was two phase)
We use far less diesel like 400 gallons vss the 800+ propane. The problem with propane gets worse when you rely on a truck to Re fill the tanks, sometimes like this year we can’t get a truck back here until the end of April…leaving us with an empty tank for two months (I have to haul and re fill 100lb tanks)
Diesel works better for us
Way easier to haul two 5 gallon jerry cans then a 100lb propane bottle. 10
Gallons of diesel will last us 5-7 days in dead of winter, 25 gallons of propane would last 3-5 days!!!!! But the propane is also used for cooking and hot water here.

The winter and cold is hard on the system that is for sure, we just have to burn more wood to keep warm and more diesel to recharge the batteries due to
Lack of sun. If I can keep the water flowing all winter then hydro power is the key to reducing $$$$ fuel costs


There is usually only one or two weeks of really cold temps here that would stop flowing water hydro generator

During summer with sunshine I won’t even start the diesel generator for 2-3 months as the sun easily keeps the batteries charged and that is with the crappy old panels.
Right now we have 16 panels they are mounted on poles and I change the angle 4 times a year to track the sun

So winter we spend some $$$ on diesel and propane, summer we barely use any

Adding a small 12v system to the house was key to taking some things off our main grid, we use a small 12 system with two car batteries and some cheapo panels, i ram USB ports to the kitchen island upstairs and into our cabin downstairs so cell phones and some cordless tools get re charged separately… this is a good way to help save $$$$$ I always have extra car batteries and I can use the old solar panels to keep those suckers charged. 6-10 smart phones and iPads suck ALOT of juice!!

 

[94Eddie]

If you can get a reliable source of water in sufficient quantity then I think that would be the best way to generate power by far. You have two ways to go in that you can use quantity with lower head or smaller quantity with higher head. If you plan to pipe water keeping it from freezing might be difficult if you can't bury the line. Sometimes the velocity of the water can keep it from freezing. Have you thought about starting a thread to keep us informed on what you are doing to maintain and improve your system? I think it would be very informative and entertaining. I wouldn't expect a lot of posts just something every time you delt with a decent sized problem or made an upgrade to the system.

 

[410Fortune]

I have water everywhere
We have 1600’ of river frontage
I have water coming out of the side of the mountain right now, seasonal. I have water out front from snow run off, we have river out back 100 yards from house and I have river drainage/wetlands all around the back. The water out back is spring fed and even during the dryers summer months it still flows.
I can put a Sandpoint well just about anywhere on this property and hit water. Plus I have located another spring out back so two springs feed into the projected pond area if all goes smoothly I should be able to make a large pond and a small damn, that will give me the volume I need

My threads all put together would show the homesteading struggles it would be nice to have it all on one “channel”
Right now it’s spread out based on the equipment we use, my generator and power system are in steel soldiers, my dozer tractor and mini ex are on heavy equipment forum, the trucks are either here or on power stroke nation…then there are atv, utv, snow machines… I don’t have any threads for the house / homestead / land hahahaha I guess I could put them all in a thread here at ef, which is basically home and helped start all of this years ago

We do get into some crazy stuff back here that is for sure,
Like flooding, mud slides, fallen trees, off road plowing all winter, winter dozering, tracked machines to commute for work/school, dragging the snow road to keep the trail nice, making new trails, clearing land, the wildlife/ predators, building homestead
It is never boring

The reason for all the threads is I need help quite often, without these forums and the Information Age much of this “modern homesteading “ would not be possible

 

[Rick]

As far as solar panels for generating electricity, it's a negative gain. Production of the panels uses more power than they will ever produce. The only way to make it pay is to have the panels manufactured in a place where electricity is cheaper, like China. All the people who talk about electric clean energy are dreaming because the technology isn't there yet.

It is clean energy at the end use point.

Mining any kind of mineral has always been energy intensive, and "dirty". Nothing new here.

The contractor who is going to build my Arizona house talked me out of solar. I was going to do it, but electricity is so much cheaper there than in San Diego there is currently no point.

Once we get an electric vehicle we will be adding solar to the house. I like the idea of having my own refilling station, no matter the initial expense. When the grid goes down so do the gas pumps. Hopefully the full electric Explorer will be out by the time we're ready to trade in the ST

 

[BKennedy]

I might put in solar and a couple Tesla walls just so when the grid goes down and the world burns, I can sit on my patio with ice in my drink and watch it all happen.

 

[CDW6212R]

I might put in solar and a couple Tesla walls just so when the grid goes down and the world burns, I can sit on my patio with ice in my drink and watch it all happen.

The world won't be burning, but you may sit back and look at the dark areas around you where they have no power, from brown outs. That will be happening soon and more often, way before there are a large percentage of electric vehicles.

As the EV numbers go up, the power grid will have less than enough to feed all the homes, and the utilities will cut off the power for periods of time. I can see all major cities having brownouts at regular times, and the EV owners scrambling to figure out where to get their free power. You just have to fill the car at work every day, it'll be a perk of the job, which will be figured into the salary.

Just like SS taxes are built into everyone's pay, you only see 7.6% taken out of your pay check. Nobody pays attention to the fact that everyone pays double that, embedded taxes built into their pay. You pay 7.6%, the employer pays another 7.6%, with money that they would have paid to you; but it comes out of your compensation package the company set up when you got the job.

It's all about working out how things are built into the pie, the system. EV's don't "produce pollution", but the electricity they consume did produce pollution when it was created. EV owners will conveniently forget or ignore that.

 

[BKennedy]

Here in California, they push for EV purchase, but the grid is already strained during the summer months. If everyone had an EV and plugged them all in at once, the grid would be overloaded.

 

[CDW6212R]

We just need more electricity(a lot more), before converting to EV's in larger numbers. That's where most of our efforts should go; 2nd I'd say is battery technology. All of it will take a long time, but those two are absolutely critical items.

The rest, building the grid out etc, all of that can come at a slow pace and not be rushed. Those don't require any new inventions of technology.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

On one of the "Fail" videos I watched last night was someone who has it figured out. Mounted on top of their Smart car or similar EV, they had mounted a gas powered generator that was plugged into the car's charging port.

 

[94Eddie]

On one of the "Fail" videos I watched last night was someone who has it figured out. Mounted on top of their Smart car or similar EV, they had mounted a gas powered generator that was plugged into the car's charging port.

There are a few EVs that have on board gas powered generators that kick in when the batteries are dead. The Chevy Volt, BMW i series are two that come to mind. I wonder how many watts it takes to keep an EV going 55 mph up a 5% grade.

 

[CDW6212R]

So you can make electricity with gasoline to run an electric car? But the EV is still green right?

 

[BKennedy]

So you can make electricity with gasoline to run an electric car? But the EV is still green right?

And that my friends, is the current state of affairs in America.

 

[94Eddie]

So you can make electricity with gasoline to run an electric car? But the EV is still green right?

Supposedly. The range when using the gas generator isn't all that far. The tank size in the BMW i3 is 2.4 gallons but only 1.9 gallons can be accessed in US spec models. The generator uses a 650cc, 34 horsepower, two-cylinder gas engine. This gets you about an additional 80 miles or just under 40 mpg. When using the generator the performance is severely compromised if the battery is completely exhausted. This means the vehicle might not be able to make it up steep grades etc. on generator power alone.

 

[Turdle]

Supposedly. The range when using the gas generator isn't all that far. The tank size in the BMW i3 is 2.4 gallons but only 1.9 gallons can be accessed in US spec models. The generator uses a 650cc, 34 horsepower, two-cylinder gas engine. This gets you about an additional 80 miles or just under 40 mpg. When using the generator the performance is severely compromised if the battery is completely exhausted. This means the vehicle might not be able to make it up steep grades etc. on generator power alone.

I would consider it green since it's use would be occasional.

 

[Fix4Dirt]

Supposedly. The range when using the gas generator isn't all that far. The tank size in the BMW i3 is 2.4 gallons but only 1.9 gallons can be accessed in US spec models. The generator uses a 650cc, 34 horsepower, two-cylinder gas engine. This gets you about an additional 80 miles or just under 40 mpg. When using the generator the performance is severely compromised if the battery is completely exhausted. This means the vehicle might not be able to make it up steep grades etc. on generator power alone.

i think its better than a constant running gas motor... its in the right direction!!! but with gas costs here at least, makes me want to ditch gas entirely, but not sure i want to pay for an EV though... here electrons so much cheaper than dinos!!! what ever happened to "I won 100 bucks on a scrath off ticket, bought 2 12 packs and a tank of gas with it" though maybethese sky high prices will stimulate some change, been seeing more evs on the road here in LA, and once we can "greenify" the grid, i could see this working!

 

[94Eddie]

I would consider it green since it's use would be occasional.

The i3 had a small battery range of 80 miles initially that went up to 115 miles, I think, later on. I bet many people used it a lot on longer trips to keep from charging the vehicle for 30 minutes every 1-2 hours. Filling up with 1.9 gallons takes 30 seconds.