Simple Cam Synchro Question

[JakePSD]

I've already replaced the cam synchro in my truck. Went no problem. Finding TDC to do it is even easier than i thought reading on here. All you have to do is just keep spinning the engine until the alignment tool drops in the synchro as it will only go in when everything is positioned to #1 TDC.

However, I'm questioning the part that I'm about to put in my girlfriends mountaineer. When I put my new synchro in my truck, there was no play in the shaft, but the one that I was about to put in her truck had play in it. I sent it back and got another one. Same thing. Not as much play as the original new one, but still definitely has some. I would think that there should be no noticeable play on a brand new part. Am I right? Or is there supposed to be a slight about of end play on the new part and I put the defective one in my truck?

 

[JakePSD]

Anyone know?

 

[SoNic67]

I returned the Dorman part because it wasn't correct made (gears would not mesh correctly) and have bought the Motorcraft instead.
There are lots of treads warning about the Dorman parts, so suit yourself... A failure of that shaft will result in oil pump failure (the shaft drives the pump). That means instant engine loss.

LE: A longer thread about that is here ( I know is about Vulcan engines, but the synchronizer is almost identical):
http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/82-...1-alert-dorman-cam-synchronizer-assembly.html

 

[JakePSD]

Mines not a dorman. They are both A1 cardone remans. I read on here about people having problems with the dorman units so I decided to stick with a reman. Is that a mistake all in its own?

 

[SoNic67]

I am not sure how well are done.
My original one had a phosphate treatment on it, similar with this pic:

This is the critical connection between gear and pump shaft - that little splint:

 

[Turdle]

Keep sending it back until you get a tight one, or, buy a Motorcraft unit.

 

[JakePSD]

I'll be sending it back again I guess. Here is the pin on the one I bought. Does this look good or should I just get a refund and buy a motorcraft?

 

[crunchie_frog]

have you looked at or tried the Richporter camshaft synchronizer? They are not remanufactured and make big claims to be better than OEM Motorcraft? They are about half the price, just curious if you have considered this or not.

Also, I do not understand how you say the alignment tool will only drop in when the engine is at TDC in your first repair on your truck. The flag goes around and it will drop in every rotation so I would think you would have to set it at TDC. It all depends on how the gears mesh at the bottom of the synchronizer relative to where the flag is located. I You may have gotten lucky or I am just not understanding how you did it.

 

[Turdle]

have you looked at or tried the Richporter camshaft synchronizer? They are not remanufactured and make big claims to be better than OEM Motorcraft? They are about half the price, just curious if you have considered this or not.

Also, I do not understand how you say the alignment tool will only drop in when the engine is at TDC in your first repair on your truck. The flag goes around and it will drop in every rotation so I would think you would have to set it at TDC. It all depends on how the gears mesh at the bottom of the synchronizer relative to where the flag is located. I You may have gotten lucky or I am just not understanding how you did it.

The cam sensor only rotates at cam speed-1 rev for every 2 of the crank. If the sensor shaft has not been disturbed, then rotating the engine until the tool pops on will align the engine to TDC #1 compression stroke.

 

[JakePSD]

I'll check out that richporter unit if I get another junk one.

And Turdle described the alignment process better than I could have. The pages about it on here never mention that method. I just figured it out on my own when I was tearing into it. As long as you are changing it on a known good running engine that method should work fine.

Any opinions on the pic I posted?

 

[crunchie_frog]

Well, I measured the shear pin in your picture on a motorcraft one I have in my garage and the pin had an outside diameter of ~0.115". The thickness of the metal for the roll pin was ~0.025". I cannot tell from the picture what yours would measure, but it looks very similar to the motorcraft one I have. I think the threads about the dorman unit say the pins were too weak or were smaller and would shear. Also, my old motorcraft has ~ 0.068" vertical play in it and a good bit of horizontal wobble. I guess from what I have read, I have decided to stay away from Cardone (some reviews about multiple repeat distributor failures in other forums) and plenty of info on here to stay away from the Dorman synchronizer, though you would have hoped they would have addressed that issue by now.

Here is a link to some information on the richporter syncrhonizers. http://www.richporter.com/media/richporter-camshaft-tech-bulletin-052112.pdf

I am going to look at one on Thursday evening (auto parts store had to order it) and I can let you know about the play in it. I guess they did not want to be another "me too" and had to have a gimmick with the new hole they have in theirs that they claim it improves oil flow in the synchronizer which leads to longer life. It seems like they put some work into designing it, but who knows for sure. From what I have read richporter has a pretty good reputation with ignition components. Anyway, I just hate shelling out full price for motorcraft parts if there is something that is cheaper and that will work just as good (or better). Also, the motorcraft units do not appear to come with a sensor. On the other hand, I would hate to have this part fail catastrophically or fail to pump oil so you would think motorcraft is the safest option, just totally against my nature to pay more than I need to.

 

[Cardone]

Mines not a dorman. They are both A1 cardone remans. I read on here about people having problems with the dorman units so I decided to stick with a reman. Is that a mistake all in its own?

Hi JakePSD,
Couple of things.


1. There will be a little play up and down to allow for movement in the cam.

2. The gears should mesh properly if the unit is seated completely all the way down and the shaft completely engaged in the oil pump drive rod.

3. The “roll pin” that holds the gear in place on the shaft is designed do to break if there is a seizing in the engine so that the gear doesn’t strip out and case shavings to go into the oil pan and pump which could damage the engine.

Hope this helps.
Thanks!

 

[Turdle]

Hi JakePSD,
Couple of things.


1. There will be a little play up and down to allow for movement in the cam.

2. The gears should mesh properly if the unit is seated completely all the way down and the shaft completely engaged in the oil pump drive rod.

3. The “roll pin” that holds the gear in place on the shaft is designed do to break if there is a seizing in the engine so that the gear doesn’t strip out and case shavings to go into the oil pan and pump which could damage the engine.

Hope this helps.
Thanks!

I don't buy the "designed to break" because if there was seizing in the engine the cam drive would be lost anyway. If the pin breaks you loose oil pump drive. Not buying that one. Sorry.

 

[SoNic67]

I don't buy the "designed to break" because if there was seizing in the engine the cam drive would be lost anyway. If the pin breaks you loose oil pump drive. Not buying that one. Sorry.

+1! If that pin brakes, the oil pump doesn't spin anymore. You would not be worried about "shavings of metal" in the oil, since the engine will be welded/seized in seconds.

 

[koda2000]

for what it's worth, i'm a hot rod/mussel car guy and the cam sync drive unit is identical to the bottom of an old fashioned distributor. i've replaced worn drive gears on distributors and they are held on with the same type of roll pin. never even heard of one breaking. it's not like there's typically a lot of resistance from turning the shaft and if the bushing or sensor should jam/seize, the engine is gonna stop running anyway. i've read about people having problems with the Dorman units (i don't buy any Dorman products if i can help it, as i feel their quality is poor). is this pin breaking really a problem or more of a myth?

 

[SoNic67]

Well, as I posted above, Vulcan engines have the same setup and they had issues too:
http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/82-...1-alert-dorman-cam-synchronizer-assembly.html

 

[Turdle]

for what it's worth, i'm a hot rod/mussel car guy and the cam sync drive unit is identical to the bottom of an old fashioned distributor. i've replaced worn drive gears on distributors and they are held on with the same type of roll pin. never even heard of one breaking. it's not like there's typically a lot of resistance from turning the shaft and if the bushing or sensor should jam/seize, the engine is gonna stop running anyway. i've read about people having problems with the Dorman units (i don't buy any Dorman products if i can help it, as i feel their quality is poor). is this pin breaking really a problem or more of a myth?

There have been at least 2 members who reported a broken pin after install, causing loss of oil pressure.

 

[koda2000]

There have been at least 2 members who reported a broken pin after install, causing loss of oil pressure.

but if the pin breaks wouldn't the engine stop running? it seems like it would w/out the cam sync spinning... idk, maybe it keeps running somehow, but if it does i would think it would be pretty obvious that something is seriously wrong.

 

[Turdle]

The engine will run without a cam sensor signal, but it will throw up a check engine light. My son's 98 blew a cam sensor on the way home once. The synch unit was fine but the sensor and flag were not.

But lets assume the pin breaks.

You would probably first see a Check engine light. Loss of oil pressure would probably illuminate the "check gage" light. ( yes it is spelled that way)

Now provided you turn off the engine when the code appears and do not wait for the knocking to start-

 

[SoNic67]

Turning off the engine at 70mph is not what most people would try when they see low pressure signal. They would assume "it's a bad sensor". Until they hear knocking, but that's too late. I had a co-worker that gave his kid the car. Run without oil (leaking) and when heard the knocks he pulled in a parking lot. Turn the engine off. After it cooled down, it never "turned" again.

Also, turning off the ignition - you loose power steering, power brakes... that's what the GM law suit is about (ignition turning off while driving).