The Black Hole

[gmanpaint]

Thank you so much for digging into this stuff Dono!

We know that 511 goes to S212, and changes to 569 leading to the 3rd brake light. What's unknown is what was done between S212 & C212. Fuse 13 controls the power out to the high stop, the cruise control auto shut off, and power to the tow/camp relays in Aux boxes 1&2. Where the short is happening has to be at the 212 connector with the wire pins in the wrong locations. At least, this is where the trail leads us today.

Since the 95 was a 2 wire BOO, and the swapped in 98 5 wire is a BPP, the wire pinouts was rearranged in the C212M connector to match the 95 body harness C212F. Allegedly... supposedly..., can't say 100% as I didn't do it, and haven't seen it yet. I have been waiting for some time now for the installer to get back to me on what he did, and how to fix it. Will that happen? Who knows.

Does this mean that the Splice (S212) leading into the connector (C212) should have been opened up, and circuits changed there as well? Man, I really am clueless here with this stuff, as you all can tell, this is not my strong suit.

I haven't removed the dash out yet. I would rather have a plan of attack to get after as soon as it is removed. I do not want this rig torn apart, and unmovable for a long period of time. It is going to take 2 people to get the dash back in, and I need time to arrange that. (sucks living alone and away from everybody I know) I would open it up, disconnect the C212, and then sit there and scratch my head on what to do next. That next might be a long while. lol

 

[Dono]

It blows that there is no one there that can work with you on this.
It really takes two people to have the dash apart and test with an ohm meter and possibly a hand full of fuses until its correct.

The S212 seems incomplete in the 1995 diagram I posted. I'm not sure what to say. Why is there a splice, but nothing added?
On C212 its pin 369 on both the 95 and 98, so no re-pinning should have been required there.

I'm going to say the wiring diagrams we are working with are suspect. That would also explain why the guy that did the original wiring didn't change, or look for issues here. Or maybe something was changed, and it didn't need to be? Were all guessing. As you said....fuse 2 doesn't even seem to do what the diagram I posted for the 1995 should do.

Your right, this makes all of our heads hurt. There's no good answer but to pull the dash back so we can get to C212. Even then (Once the dash is pulled back), I know it will be a huge fight to test stuff.

Maybe S212 did come apart already?

Edit: Looking at the pictures Don posted
The Black Hole
I can't see where S212 is. It sure would be nice to be able to do some acrobatics and see if it looks like anything has been messed with on that splice. Mirror while upside down maybe? I sure wish someone else would be there to take a picture of you trying to do that.

 

[gmanpaint]

I has no clues to give on what was done to S212, if anything at all.

This is like playing darts with a blindfold on, after getting off a carnival ride, and you have to hit the bullseye, or die.

It could be a damn screw going thru a wire for all we really know. lol

 

[gmanpaint]

S212 is somewhere near the ECM data link port under the dash supposedly.

Here maybe?

And a picture of a walrus sitting in a babies high chair, might not be as funny as me, fighting to fit under this dash!

 

[CDW6212R]

The dash is very large, but I recall getting mine in alone, setting it on a milk crate on one side and another box of parts of the other. I'd guess it took me 20 minutes to get most of the bolts started. You can do it.

It's also possible the shop doing the wiring had diagrams which weren't exactly correct, any error of those pins could cause such a short etc.

About the only thing to worry about hurting is the PCM, disconnect that before doing any testing.

 

[gmanpaint]

Rodger that!

I would rather have the help than fight it alone tho. I have my fair share of experience with figuring put how to do things alone. I would never have got the things accomplished that I have, if I didn't go it alone. This is just something I feel better about waiting for good help with. Speaking of....

I talked to @KurtECV and he is willing to help, so it's just a matter of availability. He has the skills and knowledge I need to help pull this off.

 

[KurtECV]

Ok im back lol.

As I keep digging, I can see the differences in the 1995/1998 connector with the high mount brake light.
With the 1998 S212 wiring is pin 511 and pin 569 jumped together? That's kinda what it looks like to me. It's just so crappy that S212 is so hard to get at.

Or...are these the diagrams the original guy was looking at when he adjusted the wiring harness and created a short by following this?

1998 Wiring

View attachment 172237

511 and 569 are not pins, they are circuit wiring. Yes they are spliced together at s212 (Splice pack 212). Connectors are "C" and splice packs are "S"

Connectors (Like C224) can be at a component (module, window motor, ect) or can be an in-line connector (engine harness to body harness, ect)

 

[KurtECV]

guys, does this look right to you?

In theory, GMan could apply power to #2 on the fuse panel and the rear brake light should light up.
Also following that thought, shouldn't fuse 2 (7.5a) (Not fuse 13 (15a)) be the first to blow if anything after that point is shorted to ground?
Am I looking at the wrong diagram? The ****ty thing is, if this is correct, my brain is going the full circle back to S212 as the issue.

1995 Wiring
View attachment 172235

If there is a short in that circuit, the 7.5 amp fuse will blow before the 15 amp fuse because it takes less amperage to blow the 7.5a vs 15a. Disconnecting the BOO and applying power to the light green circuit at connector 224 should cause the high mount brake lamp to illuminate. If the 7.5A fuse blows when applying power to circuit 551 then the short is between C-224 and the high mount brake lamp assembly.. including c410 and S212.

 

[KurtECV]

I was checking 1998 exterior lamp diagrams and i dont see the 7.5a fuse. Unfortunately due to the dealerships server setup i cant save pictures from ProDemand directly to my laptop so i had to resort to cell phone pictures

Looking at the diagrams @Dono posted, The first diagram with the "High mount stop lamp" is different than the "ballist" setup. which i believe @gmanpaint has.

I wonder how hard it would be to disconnect C217 from the turn signal switch... To eliminate any circuit problems from that side of the circuits. Continuity testing from c217 to fuse 13 should show less than 2 ohms with the BPP switch closed.

 

[gmanpaint]

Yeah, the 1st diagram Dono posted isn't whats in the rig anymore. The fuse panel has been changed, and that circuit is no longer like that. Hard to explain. It does have the ballast neon high stop. It's triggered by the LG at the BPP and fuse #13 that is blowing like a times sq hooker.

Kurt, I will share all the tests and findings that has been done, when your here, so you can see for yourself, and I don't confuse you here. I have done continuity tests on several items, including the multi switch. I haven't tried to add power to anything tho. Never even thought of that, until Dono mentioned it.

 

[gmanpaint]

Well... I was told the wiring fix diagram, and instructions, would be sent today. Made arrangements with Kurt to drive the 3.5 hour trip here to help this weekend.

Half of that came thru, and Kurt is heading this way. Guess we are going to just dig into it, and see what's what.

Feel like Captain of the Enterprise, and heading into uncharted territory. Phasers set to stun...... for now.

 

[traveler]

Just call Scotty and tell him he's got 12 hours to get back online. He'll say it cant be done but sonehow he'll get it done. Hehe
Hope all goes well.

 

[gmanpaint]

As much as I have been hurting myself lately...

Might need to call bones McCoy by the end of the day!

 

[gmanpaint]

Update on the electrical work from this weekend....

First off, I want to give a huge thank you to @KurtECV for donating his help, and sacrificing his time away from his family on a nice summer weekend. After what we did, there is no way I would have been able to pull it off without his help. Thanks man, what you did for me, was just awesome, and I deeply appreciate it!

So there is good news and bad news.

Bad news is, there is no power being sent to the rear high stop from the brake pedals BPP/fuse 13. We have ground only. To top it off, I think that all the testing, and all the shorts (blowing at least 30 fuses) somehow broke the ballast. We couldn't even get it to fire any longer with a 12v power source.

The fix (we think) for it, is to get another ballast, and run a stand alone hot wire to it, from the brake BPP LG circuit. Have another month to fix this for the inspection & tag renewal at least.

The good news is, the crossed wires in the 212 connector was found, and swapped. One wire was left open that wasn't needed that was in the swapped pin spot. This took care of the short, and no longer blowing fuse 13. Glad that's over!!

So now that the short was fixed, we went to see if it fixed the trailer harness issues as well. We put the harness extension I got to add the length for the new 7 pin harness, and added the 4 pin tester to it. It was all messed up still. Crap..... so we decided to remove the extension, plug back in the original 4 pin trailer plug, and test it from there. BAM! Everything works as it should. That extension I bought from etrailer.com was made for this year, & model. It's not, and caused some confusion with this circuit. I can now wire up the 7 pin harness & brake controller for the trailer. That is a major major relief! Made my day more than anything so far. I was going to strip this rig, and sell it all, and buy another truck, if this rig wasn't able to tow with. So for now, the rig stays. lol

We had the dash in & out three times since yesterday morning. We put in a solid 11 hrs yesterday, and a few more today. Kurt headed babk to his family, and I got the rest of the rig all buttoned up. Battery was low, so I got it charging for now. In a bit I will test to see if the cruise control works or not. I am hoping it does, as it wouldn't turn on, knowing there was a short in the BPP, not allowing it to be turned off with the brake pedal. I did a Ford test procedure to figure that one out.

Have to take the HU out and find the antennae to plug it back in. Forgot about that until just now. lol

Two people told me there was nuts to remove on the firewall, in the engine bay, that have to be found and removed to get the dash out. I guess the 95 is different, as it doesn't have those.

Anyways, been over 2 years to be able to post this update, and it's not fixed all the way yet, but it is getting closer & closer!

Edit: Cruise does not work. Will do the Ford test procedure on it and see what it says as to why.

 

[KurtECV]

I wonder if Circuit 569 (LG pin-4 on the bpp) may have something to do with the cruise still not working. Inconvenient, but not a deal breaker.

I'll check the circuit diagram again for the 95 and see if that's a straight shot from the BPP to the high mount brake ballist... Can't remember, too many wiring diagrams going through my head.

 

[gmanpaint]

Well, If I can just jump the ballast from a side brake light, I can do that to.

Just don't know if that voltage would be sufficient to fire the ballast or not. Kinda why running its own power wire from the fuse box sounds more efficient to me. Bpp completes the circuit at fuse 13 when pedal is pushed, and would send power to the ballast. Its all ran off that same fuse anyways, so I think it would be the same as stock wire. Unless there is a relay for this, in a Aux box, then can run it to there, and replace the wire to the ballast on it.

Yes, no?

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes, if your existing wiring for the brakes is intact and good, that should be able to feed the ballast/ middle brake light.

If it isn't for any reason(old wiring or damaged and buried), then you could add a relay along the path and still use the existing brake circuit, as a trigger signal. I did that with my old 91 Lincoln AC system. The compressor used to run for about 30-45 seconds the first time I tried the AC, and then would shut off until the next time the car was run. I traced everything and found the loss of power to be in the EATC itself. It runs full current for the compressor through it, which is dumb. So I cut the compressor wire near the starter solenoid, and added a simple relay there fed from the battery. Now only minimal current runs through the EATC, and it triggers the new relay, for the AC compressor.

 

[gmanpaint]

If there isn't a relay already being used for that circuit, that I can use, then I agree, adding one would work great.

 

[KurtECV]

Fuse 13 is powered at all time So you can't run directly off the back of the fuse cause the brake lamp will stay on all the time. Off the side lights, or at the LG BPP wire.

If lack of amperage is a concern (to fire the ballast) run off the BPP, that LG Circuit runs directly to the high mount so there is not amperage being pulled to other lights ECT

 

[CDW6212R]

If a relay is ever needed towards the back, there is usually an open space in the relay box over the LR wheel.