Thinking of building a 2nd gen lift kit...

[kert0307]

Ok, so before everyone goes and tells me to just buy one, or do a SAS here's what I am thinking....

A little back ground about me... I am currently a senior in Machanical Engineering at ISU and I like to have projects to do other than school projects for a little break. I've been doing fabrication work since I was in high school, where I earned state industrial tech awards in both design and metal working. I'm not saying all of this to say that I am better than anyone, because I know that a majority of the people on this site have much more experience and knowledege than I do about suspensions and trucks.

So here's what I'm thinking....

-Dropping the front axle around 4 inches, like every other kit on the market
-Widen the front end by about 2 inches per side (custom upper and lower arms)
-Lose the tortion bars...(coil overs or I had an idea of using air shocks and connecting them fo off road so if one was pressed in the opposite side would extend...)
-something with the cv's since longer arms will be used.

As you can see this is still well in the developmental phases, I will be making CAD models of everyhting before fabrication. So, basically I'm looking at making a long travel lift kit...

Let me know what you all think...

 

[FROADER]

Basically like the RCD but widend. Sounds good to me. Good luck with it.

 

[Ranger379]

Let me know what you all think...

i think you could make alot of money here if u can sell them for less than what the other kits sell for lol. sounds pretty good tho

 

[410Fortune]

How about skip the drop brackets and design long travel CV shafts with new upper and lower control arms?

There are plenty of long travel IFS A arm suspension kits and shops that build true long travel setups in the desert truck scene. 2wd is easy, 4x4 is a bit more complicated, but getting 16+" of travel and widening the track width is done all the time WITHOUT dropping the diff/center section

Dixon Brothers already makes a LT coilover kit for the Explorer/ Ranger Edge with custom long travel CV shafts, take a look at this stuff to get some more ideas

Garage fab kits are quite abundandt in So Cal where the desert scene is so huge, the newest trend is to center mount the lower arms and the upper arms can even be a L or J shape to help get room for coilovers, bumps, etc.
This is how alot of trophey stucks are setup, both 2wd and 4wd.

IMO the future of off road is IFS at all 4 corners, some solid axle guys may laugh but to me its just natural progression

 

[kert0307]

i think you could make alot of money here if u can sell them for less than what the other kits sell for lol. sounds pretty good tho

Thats actually the end goal, but we'll see how much my build tally is when its done. I also would want to make sure it could handle some major abuse before I would make them for other people...

 

[cgriffin_5139]

ditto 410, man if you could design i cv with a slip joint like what is on a drive shaft that would be good.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

I sort of built a lift kit for mine. It was based on a Superlift kit that was damaged. I didn't do anything but recreate it, but it is possible to make the drop brackets. I have some bent superlift lower control arm drop brackets if you want one to look at. PM me if you want one, its yours for nothing, just pay for the ride.

 

[BogFather]

Hrmmmm a 2nd gen specific lift that is cheap.......Where do i sign...LMAO. would love to see the end project, keep us all posted.

 

[kert0307]

How about skip the drop brackets and design long travel CV shafts with new upper and lower control arms?

The reason I wanted to use the drop brackets is because I think there is more possible travel gain from increasing the travel up wards. Also it is easier to put on larger tires if it is dropped down a little bit.

I have seen the dixon brothers kit, but I'm trying to make something that will be more for general off roading, and not just desert racing, although thier kit looks to be high quality.

I will not make a J or L shaped arms, Even thought the upper arms don't have as much force on them, I have seen J shaped ones bent on smaller applications.

I would rather make something that I know is strong and will last than skim for weight/price. I will be looking at some high angle CV's too

 

[kert0307]

I just wanted to update on my progress. Right now I am pretty sure I will be using stock spindles, and high angle ball joints with custom upper and lower arms. Probably between 2 and 3 inches wider per side.

I am currently gathering parts to so I can experiment with different lengths of arms, mostly looking at how it will affect the angles and length of the half shafts.

Can anyone help me out for finding some places where I could possibly find higher angle CV's. Or does anyone know of any other Half shafts that are simmilar to the explorers?

 

[owl wolf]

I know a couple of people have tried to make hybrid CVs with 150 joints and remachined splines and such. Nissanboy had been trying some thing like this a while back I never searched to see the result though. Folks have tried some whaky s to get strength and ifs travel.
maybe you should check some of his idears out. But be warned they're "creative"!

Also doesnt the dixon bros. kit have some type of high angle cv?

real interesting project!

 

[410Fortune]

http://www.kartek.com/products/all/drivetrain/drivetrain.htm

 

[kert0307]

I know a couple of people have tried to make hybrid CVs with 150 joints and remachined splines and such. Nissanboy had been trying some thing like this a while back I never searched to see the result though. Folks have tried some whaky s to get strength and ifs travel.
maybe you should check some of his idears out. But be warned they're "creative"!

Also doesnt the dixon bros. kit have some type of high angle cv?

real interesting project!

Just read throught nissanboy's threads, looks like I might have to get some 150 CV's and see just how much machining is involved, b/c I'd really like to keep machining to a min b/c it will drive the cost up really quick.

Thanks for the link 410, I'll pry give them a call if I can't figure something of my own out.

As for the problem most people commented about in nissanboy's thread about "Even if an IFS wheel droops it won't have much weight on it and it will spin, I plan on doing some experiments with some sort of air cylinders to transfer force from one side to the other....we'll have to wait and see how it works.

 

[prerunner02]

good idea with the air cylinders, thats what range rover has been doing for a few years now, maybe you should take a look at 1 for ideas

 

[410Fortune]

hmmmm

A good sway bar setup can help alot, to make the IFS work more like a solid axle traction wise when getting all twisty.
The IFS can soak up bumps better then a SAS and the ground clearance in the center under the diff rules when you dont use drop brackets.

I like the Total Chaos and Camburg Toyota 4x4 kits and would really love to see them make something for the Ford to compete with Dixon
I suspect they have watched what happened with the Dixon kit (units sold) and then decided whether it was worth the R&R and the tooling

 

[kert0307]

Ya, It's too bad we can't swap 150 suspension parts as easily as toyota stuff like the Total Chaos kit.


I'm going to get something fabbed up this summer when I have more spare time, and after significant testing and judging the response from people I'll decide where to take it from there.

So right now I'm gathering info and thinking about possible designs, both proven and original, mostly because the IFS kits that are around are mostly for pre-runner style driving and I'm looking for a more all around wheeling type since I live in the midwest. But after I get a setup I like I will do some "testing" at other places...the Moab seems to come to mind. I also want it to be realiable enough to run as a daily driver, and be strong enough for anything that is thrown at it.

 

[410Fortune]

The dixon kit is Moab proven as well as desert proven. Most guys with 4x4 will run trails, and IFS can work fantastic
I cannot wait to see what you come up with.
If you build new arms and CV's you can use any spindle/brake setup you want, F-150/Expedition might work perfect, bigger brakes, better bearings, etc just have to consider other changes like bolt circle and the possible need for a different master cyl with more capacity for the larger calipers.

 

[IZwack]

...the possible need for a different master cyl with more capacity for the larger calipers.

I think the stock brake master cyl on the 2nd gen is fine. I am using the stock one to drive a 8-lugged D44 and 14-bolt calipers -- plenty of fluid movement to lock up all four discs .. and its unlikely that the 150's calipers are larger than those.

 

[kert0307]

The dixon kit is Moab proven as well as desert proven.

Got any picts of it working at Moab? I'll I've ever found are pictures of it on desert trucks.

 

[FROADER]

Got any picts of it working at Moab? I'll I've ever found are pictures of it on desert trucks.

This is CG's Ex last May in Moab:

The rest of his pics are here. http://www.explorerforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=3512&ppuser=

Here is the broken part of it too.