Transferring a 98 explorer 5.0 into a1967 F100

[Thomas Bundy]

Thanks let y'all know as things progress

 

[boominXplorer]

Welcome Thomas, I wish you well but you chose a tough conversion. The others have mentioned the basic items related to the swap, but there are critical things which will stop it from working unless you figure them out.

Find and consult with the 2-3 threads here which are about swaps to other non Explorer vehicles. Those have lots of special details that will help you be successful, or make minor changes to get it done right.

The minor problem is the PATS issue which everyone here can tell you about. That's the easy subject. The tough one is the speed signal which the computer(PCM) requires. In 1998 the Explorer began using the rear ABS sensor from the diff, for the VSS. That's easy to understand.

Beginning in 1998, that rear ABS sensor signal goes to the ABS module, and the wild part is that the 98-01 Explorer ABS module "conditions" it and outputs the required VSS signal to the PCM and speedometer.

What that means is that for a non 98-01 Explorer engine swap, you need the Explorer ABS module, plus a G-force sensor mounted on the frame rail(near the fuel filter). So because your project vehicle is not a 98-01 Explorer which has the special VSS system which includes the PCM and ABS module, plus the G-force sensor(which'd be easy to add), you have tough choices.

Your easiest path is to use a late 97 Explorer PCM and wiring harness, plus convert the 99-01 302 fuel parts with 96-01 stuff. That's the fuel injectors and rails, and add a return fuel line. That also helps you because you don't need the extra fuel tank sensor on top used on 99+ Fords.

Meaning, if you use a 1996 or 97 PCM, then the ABS module and VSS signal is no issue. In those the VSS comes from a normal speed sensor on the transmission or transfer case. Your 99 parts don't have a VSS/speed sensor in the trans/TC. Others have installed the 98-01 Explorer systems into a non 98-01 vehicle, and discovered these problems after the install. Reseach it now and decide what's best for your project.

I would also go the 96/97 pcm and wiring route. To relate to this project I am almost done collecting parts for my 77 F150 w/ factory 351w. I am swapping an EFI mainfold on and using explorer pcm to control it and the 4r70w trans I swap in behind it. Using Explorer front engine dress too.

If you do go 96/97 and are 2wd you will NEED a 96/97 transmission or at least tailshaft section and gear setup.

 

[Thomas Bundy]

So basically I chose to buy the wrong year motor and transmission. I was hoping for a basic exchange and had priced the wiring kit from Painless Wiring. Now I find the kit only works on the earlier HO motor. I have purchased this motor (with a recent rebuild) and I am seeing a multitude of problems. I don't know what to do now.

 

[Thomas Bundy]

Is this engine easily converted to carb and distribution? If so which dist would work and what's a good harmonic balancer would I use?

 

[1998Exp]

Is this engine easily converted to carb and distribution? If so which dist would work and what's a good harmonic balancer would I use?

As I mentioned earlier, be aware that the 4R70W transmission attached to your 1999 5.0L is electronically controlled - by the same PCM (computer) that controls the engine, and needs the same inputs. I do not know what it takes to convert that transmission to mechanical control --- if it's even possible.

 

[Thomas Bundy]

I can exchange the transmission for a AOD, I have worked with this transmission before, I just need to know what I have to do to convert the engine to a distributor and carb

 

[Thomas Bundy]

I can exchange the transmission for a AOD. I just need to know what I have to do to convert to a distributor and carb.

 

[Thomas Bundy]

I can exchange the transmission for a AOD. I just need to know what I have to do to convert to a distributor and carb.

 

[Josh P]

Change the intake, remove the cam sync sensor and install a distributor. Standalone edis controller would allow you to run a carb without having to install a distributor. Aftermarket efi an option?

 

[Thomas Bundy]

What is à cam sync sensor? What is a stand alone edis controller? Do I run the 8 seperate coils

 

[1998Exp]

Change the intake, remove the cam sync sensor and install a distributor. Standalone edis controller would allow you to run a carb without having to install a distributor. Aftermarket efi an option?

The OP will also need to provide a low-pressure fuel pump. The timing cover of the Explorer V8 is not drilled for one. May need to change the timing cover, or install an electric one instead.

 

[1998Exp]

What is à cam sync sensor? What is a stand alone edis controller? Do I run the 8 seperate coils

This sensor replaces the distributor in computer-controlled, distributor-less systems. It fits directly into the distributor location in the timing cover. Interestingly enough, it does not control ignition, but fuel injection timing. Ignition is controlled from the crankshaft position sensor, located next to the tone ring attached to the harmonic balancer.
EDIS stands for Electronic Distributor Ignition System. It basically replaces a distributor, using a crankshaft position sensor instead. It is my understanding that these just 'sort out' the spark for the appropriate cylinder and calculate RPM-based advance. Another unit, called "Megasquirt" (or some such) actually drives the coils, using the EDIS input, as well as some measure of the engine load, taken from the MAF (air flow sensor) or from the throttle position sensor. Seems that those can't use manifold vacuum for engine load related advance like a conventional distributor, because they only take electrical inputs. I believe that making this setup work is not a simple matter, and requires quite a bit of knowledge and equipment.
At some point in the evolution of the 5.0L engine, in the late 70s or 80s, Ford might have used an EDIS system instead of the do-it-all PCM (powertrain management computer), so perhaps you could find the entire ignition system at a recycler instead of dealing with individual components and trying to make them work together - don't know, but there sure is plenty of information about this on the net.
Your engine has 4, not 8 coils. Each coil has two high voltage wires coming out, which fire two opposite cylinders at the same time, using what's called a "waste spark" system. The EDIS solution will retain those. If you go to a conventional distributor system, you'll need to replace them with the old style, single large coil.

 

[CDW6212R]

The Explorer engine is basically the same internally with minor differences, from the HO engine through the 2001 version. The parts are common enough and feasible enough that you can work out any changes you need. So the 99 302 you have can be used, you just need to learn what might be better for what you are doing.

It sounds like you don't have an actual Explorer wiring harness, which is required to use the Explorer PCM, easily. The aftermarket wiring could be used in some way, but basically anything directly connecting to the engine/trans/PCM would be best done with the Explorer wires. The PCM wiring goes directly to the engine and trans harness, and that has wiries that lead to the under hood PDB(relays/fuses), and to the firewall connectors(3).

The VSS output from the trans sensor came in the 96/97 Explorers(on the trans or transfer case output shaft and housing). It is also the same as most early/mid 90's Crown Vic 4R70W's, and the AODE's of the 94/95 Mustangs, plus others. So there are good choices for them. The 1998 trucks with the 4R70W for example has the same VSS output shaft/housing/sensor. My 98 Navigator BW4406 has the VSS on it.

A carbed engine is simpler, but has less support for aftermarket upgrades, plus poorer driveability and power(normal street levels). You can set that up easier with the harness you bought, but the exhaust manifolds will be a bigger deal than that.

The Explorer 302's lasted six years, 96-01. The GT40 heads were on the first 25%, 96 and half of 1997 models. The heads and EGR system(heads/intake/elbow) changed in mid 97, and so the last 75% of used GT40P heads. That's what's on the 99 engine you have unless it's been swapped, and those take unique manifolds which you'd rather not deal with given the non Explorer vehicle.

I'd want to swap the "P" heads for any other mild GT40 or better 302 head, and again use the 96/97 computer and Explorer wiring(at least the PCM and engine/trans harnesses). I'm not very familiar with the difference between the 96 to early 97 PCM, and the late 97 PCM. I've been lead to think that the late 97 is a better choice, and I think it's about operating the later EGR system, the DPFE sensor etc. I know that those computers have to have the matching 4R70W range sensor, the MLPS where the shift cable goes to. The earlier pre 98 MLPS has to be used with a 96/97 computer. So you can use that 99 trans, but for the earlier PCM it'd need the earlier MLPS also.

There are lots of little details like these to work out, just go slowly and pick up the details here and in other threads detailing swaps like these.

 

[CDW6212R]

The AOD requires a special TV cable or rod, don't forget that to convert to a carb. Not many carbs were ever made to accept a TV cable, and the adjustment of that TV pressure is critical at all times. I've got an AOD in my 91 Lincoln, and very soon it's my next project to convert to a 4R70W and Explorer computer, including the front dress and all wiring from other Ford vehicles. I like the AOD for a stock use application, but not for any performance use. The 4R70W/AODE is far better long term.

If you have access to the 4R70W and Explorer wiring/PCM, go that route, it will be much better on the long run. Others have finished Explorer 302 conversions into older Ford trucks, one or two are documented on this forum. I doubt that they regret the extra work it took to install the Explorer PCM etc.

 

[Josh P]

What is à cam sync sensor? What is a stand alone edis controller? Do I run the 8 seperate coils

Here is a link to an edis controller. Basically you could retain the factory ignition without needing the factory wiring.
https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/MegaJolt_Lite_Jr.

 

[CDW6212R]

Mark VIII's have the factory EDIS module on the fender, and others did in the 90's. Those were a middle step before COP ignition which began in 1999 Fords.

 

[Bigred22769]

You could use your motor and a Megasquirt EFI (www.diyautotune.com) to control it , you may need a module to control trans or you could go AOD .

 

[imp]

I don't know how much success I will have with this attempt, but I am going to try it. I have the under hood wiring harness and the wiring diagrams are online, so maybe I can figure it out.

@Thomas Bundy
There are numerous pitfalls about to jump out at you. As all the others have mentioned. Biggest problem I see is that you have an EEC-V system which introduced OBD-II status, as well as aded control , called them Boosters, emphasis on ABS, as one guy mentioned. If you persist on doing an EFI 5.0 in a '60s truck, my suggestion would be to revert to EEC-IV, circa early '90s. You would need to use a non-electronic transmission to avoid insurmountable headaches, probably AOD. Some of the late harness is useful, some is not. Exhaust manifolds on 5.0 equipped late-'90s Explorers are different. Likely different bolt-up manifold configurations.

Distributor. Be aware that 5.0L engines in High Output configuration, Mustang and Lincoln (I think) usage, had several major differences from other car and truck usage. Roller-tappet camshafts, used STEEL distributor driven gears. If you shove a non-HO distributor into one of those blocks, it will EAT the distributor gear. This all relates back to WHAT configuration did EX's use, but I can't help you there; did they have roller tappets? Did they even have ANY distributor gear on the camshaft? I dunno. Sorry.

Your best, IMO, way to go would be to carburete the EX engine in the truck. If you insist on EFI, and go with EEC-IV, you will need to install a return fuel line from the fuel rail to the fuel tank, contrive to mount an EFI pump either in the tank, or in-line externally (F-150, hint, used in-line pumps external of the tank around 1989, 1990, called them "booster pumps", but I used one to power my 1979 Ranjchero with 5.0L HO EFI out of a police car, worked very well.

The wiring? Unless you have a solid understanding of the basic requirements for connections, the way Circuit Theory works, you may get buried. My very first EFI conversion was a 1970 Bronco with 5.0L HO engine, T-5 transmission. I had the entire wiring harness out of the donor car, another wrecked police car, and it took me 3 months of intensive study and work to finally get it running. It ran like a champ. But, I have two Engineering degrees, in Electrical and Merchanical. It was a really challenging project. The Ranchero came next; piece of cake. imp

PS: Glad to answer any questions, just ask.

 

[CDW6212R]

FYI, the Explorer 302's use the one roller cam Ford made for all SBF trucks, AKA the Lightning 351 has the same cam. All Ford roller engines take the steel distributor gear, so they match what's in a 302 HO for example. The HO distributors are very good, but the TFI module is a weak link(heat eventually kills them). They'll go for 10-20 years often, but guys racing have killed them sooner, so there are remote mount kits you should not need.

Ranchero you say imp? My last project will be my 73 Ranchero(it has the 72 Sport front end already). I'm planning to install a 351 in name only, with the Explorer EFI system and front dress, a 4R70W, and every option I can do given the complete wiring replacement required. I've got the power window regulators and motors already, plus wiring from a Thunderbird for those, The Explorer door latches will bolt in, so a Fox lock actuator will work for that. Steering column will be a 93 Explorer with a manual's guts since it's a console truck, Bronco steering wheel with CC etc. That's too much planned with three projects ahead of it, but it's nice to daydream about. I grew up with a 72 Gran Torino, so the front end and interior is special to me. The old parts are way past obsolete, you have to hunt hard for everything now.

Good luck with your F100 project, I know about dealing with old Fords.

 

[Thomas Bundy]

I am now planning on converting to the Holley carb. If I change to a distributor I will use an aftermarket one. Is the oil pump still driven by the distributor? If so will I need a different drive shaft?
I know from reading here that the Explorer uses the rear end sensor for speed and I don't have it. I think this late engine conversion is over my head. I am pretty mechanical and have completed many 5.0&AOD conversions. Any thoughts on converting to a distributor and carb.