Transferring a 98 explorer 5.0 into a1967 F100

[imp]

May work, though I am not sure where exactly should I hit. Suspecting the PFC (power factor correction) controller IC - is that a good spot? Incidentally, there are no codes - that Toshiba TV power supply won't flash any codes -- obviously because it has no power to run self-diagnostics
On a bit more serious note, unlike automakers, consumer electronics manufacturers do not provide any service manuals to the general public - at any price. Wondering if there is a way to twist their arm to submission somehow.

@1998Exp
Frankly, I'm glad I only find interest in non-entertainment oriented electronics, such as PCMs, Programmable Machine Controllers, etc. Sorry for blowing off steam, but entertainment don't hack it for me. Just a cranky, old *******. imp

 

[1998Exp]

@1998Exp
Frankly, I'm glad I only find interest in non-entertainment oriented electronics, such as PCMs, Programmable Machine Controllers, etc. Sorry for blowing off steam, but entertainment don't hack it for me. Just a cranky, old *******. imp

PCM? as in Pulse Code Modulation? I am mostly an old school analog electronics guy. And, remembering the days when I drooled at the sight of a radio that I could not afford, I would rather replace the failed 25 cent electrolytic cap or $1 IC than scrap a $500 TV - just as I'd rather fix my ancient Explorer than buy a new one.

 

[imp]

PCM? as in Pulse Code Modulation? I am mostly an old school analog electronics guy. And, remembering the days when I drooled at the sight of a radio that I could not afford, I would rather replace the failed 25 cent electrolytic cap or $1 IC than scrap a $500 TV - just as I'd rather fix my ancient Explorer than buy a new one.

@1998Exp
Just how "old school" are you? I had to learn about interlaced scanning, hporizontal blanking pulses, degaussing, and "phasing" of the three electron guns. Today, that's all gone, along with CRTs, carburetors, ignition points. But the basics remain the same, thank goodness. Reminisce: had an old 19" CRT placed up in the attic of our old house outside Chicago, went up there searching for something. Remembered I had placed it up there about 6 months earlier, removed from a working TV, got a wire, and drew a 1/2" arc from the inside high voltage cup to the outside carbon coating! Those things were GREAT high voltage capacitors. I wondered if I could use a bunch in building a Testla Coil, but wound up using beer bottles filled with salt water, outside coated with aluminum foil, submerged in a tub of salt water. Worked like Gangbusters, until a bottle cracked. Once found, back in business! imp

 

[Thomas Jefferson]

Bought a 99 explorer 5.0 and want to install it in a 67 F100. Bought the complete drive line from the shaft to the radiator. Any one ever do this? Want to make a driver, not a racer.

Hi Thomas,
I am doing something similar and researching what I need to accomplish it. Mine is an '88 F-150 5.0L rwd that I am putting a '98 Explorer 5.0L awd engine/trans assy into. I am also going to transplant in a 4wd front drive assy. from a Bronco and lock it so that my vehicle will become full-time awd; which is what I need.

From what I see, the most critical input you need is speed sensor input. I think, since you have the entire radiator-to-shaft assy., you will have that input already from the trans speedo/sensor. The sensor on the rear axle, which of course you don't have in your era vehicle, matters for ABS and not ECU. In my view you are all set. Provide 12V to the engine assy./ECU and you are good to go (with a proper EFI capable fuel supply/pump/relay input of course).

I had a similar situation with a Mercedes engine/trans assy that I was going to transplant. I started it and ran the assy. on the ground; free-standing and without a vehicle attached. It had speed sensor input but it wasn't needed since it was running in "Park", and speed input didn't matter.

You should be able to do the same sort of thing. Then put it in your vehicle and go. Forget the knuckle-dragger carb stuff; it is 2017 for crying out loud. Put a catalytic convertor on it too. Show some respect.
Cheers, from Seattle.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Hi Thomas,
I am doing something similar and researching what I need to accomplish it. Mine is an '88 F-150 5.0L rwd that I am putting a '98 Explorer 5.0L awd engine/trans assy into. I am also going to transplant in a 4wd front drive assy. from a Bronco and lock it so that my vehicle will become full-time awd; which is what I need.

From what I see, the most critical input you need is speed sensor input. I think, since you have the entire radiator-to-shaft assy., you will have that input already from the trans speedo/sensor. The sensor on the rear axle, which of course you don't have in your era vehicle, matters for ABS and not ECU. In my view you are all set. Provide 12V to the engine assy./ECU and you are good to go (with a proper EFI capable fuel supply/pump/relay input of course).

I had a similar situation with a Mercedes engine/trans assy that I was going to transplant. I started it and ran the assy. on the ground; free-standing and without a vehicle attached. It had speed sensor input but it wasn't needed since it was running in "Park", and speed input didn't matter.

You should be able to do the same sort of thing. Then put it in your vehicle and go. Forget the knuckle-dragger carb stuff; it is 2017 for crying out loud. Put a catalytic convertor on it too. Show some respect.
Cheers, from Seattle.

Is there a reason you are going with full time AWD with a locked front VS a 4406 swap with selectable 2wd/4wd?

 

[CDW6212R]

Is there a reason you are going with full time AWD with a locked front VS a 4406 swap with selectable 2wd/4wd?

I hope he just means a locker(LS) front diff. The AWD TC makes it one driven front and rear shaft, driven by viscous clutch. He'll be okay I think.

The other swaps though are not going to go well without a proper VSS signal from the ABS module. The 98-01 computer does not accept a normal VSS signal directly from the VSS or an ABS sensor. Those computers receive the VSS signal in modified form, from the 98-01 ABS module. All other PCM's that I've heard of accept normal VSS signals, the 98-01 Explorer computers are poor choices for swaps into non-Explorers. The 96 and 97 PCM's are much better for handling the speed signal. Others have figured this out for us, the hard way. Their swaps didn't go well until they figured that out.

 

[Mbrooks420]

A locked (non selectable) front on snow and ice is asking for trouble.

 

[CDW6212R]

I agree, that would be bad even if it was 4WD, and you didn't have it in 4WD. I'm going to try the Torsen diff, in two of my Explorers, one for snow and one for power. I think the torque sensing type are much more forgiving than clutch or locking diff's. We'll see, I'm about to hunt someone to install one when I get the 99 front carrier housing out.

 

[Thomas Jefferson]

Thank you guys for the responses.
When I am referring to locking the front hubs and keeping them that way it is because I will have a viscous-coupling type awd transfer case from the '98 Explorer in it (non-selective). Why the awd full-time vs a selective awd/4wd? Because I bought the entire 5.0L engine-trans-transfer case with intact wiring harnesses and ECU's for $400 out of a wrecked Explorer. The AOD in the '88 F-150 is toast. I bought the F-150 as-is. It looks like the shift-rod seal was leaking pretty badly and it was probably run low on ATF more than once. The throttle cable to the trans is adjusted properly, and I can nurse the truck along in Low; then shift it gently into Drive and could probably drive all day long then on a flat highway. But I have to go up hills around here.

I am not going off-roading or anything like that. The long bed truck is for local use and I have a very steep (paved) driveway. It can get nasty in sleet, freezing rain, etc. and I need awd at the minimum.

I'll have to look into the modified VSS signal re the donor '98 setup.
Thanks again,
DAW

 

[CDW6212R]

The 97 PCM is fairly easy to get, and the wiring is close enough that you can use the 98 harness, with modifications(comparing schematics is the hard part, to find the minor differences). The 96/97 system is made to work with the analog trans range sensor, not the 98+ digital version. You can use the pre-98 range sensor(DTRS another name), in the newer 4R's, they look the same but produce different signals. That's where some wiring variations are, also leading into the trans/VB. The 98 trans you have can be used, but for the VSS it'd need the output shaft swapped from a pre-98 4R70W. The whole trans has to come apart to get that R&R'd though.

 

[Thomas Jefferson]

I really appreciate the response. I am a bit confused though. I am planning to install the entire '98 assy with both the PCM and engine ECU intact (all harnesses intact). Why can't I just hook up the +/- cables and start it? [using the feed to fuel pump relay from the harness]
Is the conflict due to the rear axle sensor input? If so, can I swap in a post-'98 sensor or differential assy? That seems easier than going into the AT (there is no way that I would resort to that mess).

Is the problem actually that I don't/won't have a working speedometer? The '98 digital VSS signal will be going to its own digital PCM/EMS but there is no digital speedo. But I can get around that by making up a table of vehicle speed plotted to engine rpm in drive and in overdrive (a poor man's speedo). It wouldn't be the first time that I've done that crude but effective method. (...but officer, I was only doing 2300 rpm!).

I don't really care about eliminating the speed density for the sake of getting an MAF engine management. The current 5.0L runs fine for local use as-is. One motivation to go with the later model 5.0L was to get the better heads/exhaust. I could swap those across but it is not worth the effort. I would be fine using a dash-mounted toggle switch to select activation of overdrive or lock-up if that is an option.

I would consider just finding a C6/transfer case assy or a 5 speed MT/transfer case assy but I already have the '98 Explorer engine/trans/transfer complete and ready to bolt-in.

If I can get around the electronic issues re the swap, I might put the assy in there before swapping in the front axle and focus on getting the bugs out of engine swap first. It would be rwd (no front driveshaft) and I know that demands a good parking brake or wheel chocks but that is not a big deal until I convert the front axles to drive-axle.

I've thought about just selling then F-150 with the bad AOD and getting a '96 or so F-150 std cab long bed 5 speed but they are not plentiful in good shape. I bought this F-150 for $750 and it only has 79K miles on it.

 

[CDW6212R]

The 98-01 Explorer "system" includes the Explorer ABS module, and the ABS sensor on the rear diff. You aren't planning to use those last two items, which are required for the system to run the transmission properly. There is also a G-force sensor included too, but it's small and I'm not sure what it would affect leaving it out. You don't want to deal with trying to include the Explorer ABS module, so the 1997 computer and use of the 97 and older VSS sensor on the trans makes more sense to me. Others have done swaps with the 98-01 PCM, and discovered the trans not shifting after the swap. It makes the vehicle undrivable until you address the VSS signal issue. I'm not sure if someone has already posted a link here to one of those other swaps. The one I remember the best was for a Volvo, using the 98-01 computer etc. I believe he was the first to figure out the problem, and I think he used the late 1997 PCM to make it work.

 

[allmyEXes]

Someone may have said this already. It would take less time to put the old truck body on a rolling, running Explorer chassis and would ride better than the '67 truck

 

[boominXplorer]

There's also the pats issue of using a 98+ computer. I'd get a whole engine and transmission harness w/pcm from a 97 Explorer or mountaineer with a build date of 11/96 or later. You want a pcm with a code XDT2 or XDT3.

The harness will swap right on the 98 motor. The transmission harness will swap right on with the exception of the valve body plug needing repinned or the 98 connector swapped over. The only snag is you now need a vss sensor on the transfer case for the computer to shift. The 97 uses the vss in the trans or tcase to adjust shift points where the 98 uses a conditioned abs signal which is more of a pain than what it's worth to swap in an older truck.

I'd find the 97 harness and swap to a transfer case with high/low option and has a vss output to make the swap nicer and smoother.

I run this exact drivetrain in my 01 ranger so feel free to ask any questions.

 

[imp]

......where the 98 uses a conditioned abs signal which is more of a pain than what it's worth to swap in an older truck.

It is the signal conditioning which eludes understanding. My '04 Shop Manual indicates that use of a VOM to attempt to determine whether a wheel speed sensor is operating will "damage the sensor". I read that after I put my VM on one, read some voltage output, forgot what type or how much, but the voltage did not vary with wheel speed, which led me to believe the signal was frequency derived. Didn't seem to damage the sensor. The bad sensor code was thrown after numerous severe difficulties which included "Forced Limited Power", and "Forced Engine Idle".

Turned out, the main chip in the ABS Module had died. Once that was determined, a used ABS Module has worked fine for several thousand miles now, EXCEPT, ABS light ON constantly, cannot be deleted, only code thrown "VIN Mismatch". imp

 

[CDW6212R]

It is the signal conditioning which eludes understanding. My '04 Shop Manual indicates that use of a VOM to attempt to determine whether a wheel speed sensor is operating will "damage the sensor". I read that after I put my VM on one, read some voltage output, forgot what type or how much, but the voltage did not vary with wheel speed, which led me to believe the signal was frequency derived. Didn't seem to damage the sensor. The bad sensor code was thrown after numerous severe difficulties which included "Forced Limited Power", and "Forced Engine Idle".

Turned out, the main chip in the ABS Module had died. Once that was determined, a used ABS Module has worked fine for several thousand miles now, EXCEPT, ABS light ON constantly, cannot be deleted, only code thrown "VIN Mismatch". imp

Interesting. Could that "VIN Mismatch" be from the ABS module being tied to the VIN from the vehicle it came from? I've read of people working with the OSS or ABS signal with later Ford computers, but I don't recall the details. I wish the 98-01 PCM's could work with any VSS signal, having the ABS module be part of the circuit is dumb.

 

[imp]

Interesting. Could that "VIN Mismatch" be from the ABS module being tied to the VIN from the vehicle it came from? I've read of people working with the OSS or ABS signal with later Ford computers, but I don't recall the details. I wish the 98-01 PCM's could work with any VSS signal, having the ABS module be part of the circuit is dumb.

Yes. Shop Manual states installation of a replacement ABS Module requires "configuration" of the module. Of course, one must possess a device capable of doing that, which dealers do have. Didn't say exactly what configure means, so I took a chance and bought a used module, installed it, my problems went away, except the lit ABS light, reflecting "VIN Mismatch". Occasionally, I check for new ABS codes, but evidently since there are none, the device must be providing proper ABS operation. Brakes seem to work fine. Have not tested a controlled skid. Just don't feel like paying Ford some ridiculous fee to "configure", to get the damned lght shut off. The light is an LED, controlled digitally through the CAN bus, preventing the intruder from clipping a wire, etc. Pulling a fuse won't do I, either. The instrument panel being a digitally-controlled microprocessor now, pretty much excludes tampering. I hate it!

I believe giving the ABS module capability to disable the vehicle came about as a litigation thing. Prove ABS wasn't working, win the lawsuit. I don't like it, but the vehicle has proven over the years to be extremely reliable, with few mechanical or electrical faults presenting themselves. "Forced Engine Idle" is scary as hell.......car will start, idle perfectly, throttle does absolutely nothing, put in gear, it creeps along normally. imp

 

[imp]

/////

 

[CDW6212R]

...

"Forced Engine Idle" is scary as hell.......car will start, idle perfectly, throttle does absolutely nothing, put in gear, it creeps along normally. imp

Wow, that'd be a good anti-theft device if we could trigger that.

 

[Gary Crist]

The transmission controller is available several places like, http://www.becontrols.com/.
You have a "Cobra" engine with "P" heads.

So rather having a 67 289 you can upgrade to 302 that you have. Worse comes to worse, put a carb on it and call it a day....