Transferring a 98 explorer 5.0 into a1967 F100

[CDW6212R]

I'd say get the 302 HO distributor, and the oil pump drive shaft should almost always be replaced by a stronger aftermarket piece. The stock one is okay for stock usage, but it is a weak link, and the better shafts run around $25(cheap insurance).

The carb will be the big issue to use an AOD, the TV cable has to be attached properly. It's not like a kick down cable attachment on a carb. It has to have fine adjustments and provide 33psi at a certain point off idle, plus reach higher pressures evenly. There is a Lokar AOD cable kit I have used once before on a typical Holley, but it was not very robust for typical street use. I even have a spare someplace that I never planned to use after installing that first one. I suggest finding a carb that actually is made for an AOD, and that list of carbs is very short(the 85 Mustang GT comes to mind as one).

 

[Thomas Bundy]

Would I have to change the harmonic balancer?

 

[CDW6212R]

That will be based on your choice of front dress parts. You have to use a 50oz balancer and flexplate, so you keep the Explorer flexplate for sure.

The Explorer is much much shorter in front to gain space to the radiator/fan. You can use the Explorer front dress if you'd like, with the balancer(they all have to go together), but check on the water pump pulley bolt pattern. I'm not sure how that will match with typical fans you might prefer to fit the old truck's shroud. The Explorer fan/clutch obviously bolts right on, but it would be far back from most other shrouds. That should be a minor issue. The late front dress is better for servicing, great high amp alternator etc. Not much down side to using those.

 

[Thomas Bundy]

Thanks, but does it have the timing marks?

 

[CDW6212R]

There are the basic timing marks on it, not the typical 30-40 degrees each way, but the critical ones you need from TDC and out beyond 10. I forgot how high it goes, I've only looked once to find TDC recently to confirm my balancer hadn't spun. You need the little bracket that points to the timing, but not the small crank sensor adjacent to it which is mounted on the timing cover.

But you'll change the cover, so the best answer is to compare the mounting holes for that TDC bracket, to another timing cover which will have the fuel pump hole. If they match, you can use the Explorer balancer/bracket, and everything else up there. That's another one of those small issues that rarely comes up.

 

[imp]

This sensor replaces the distributor in computer-controlled, distributor-less systems. It fits directly into the distributor location in the timing cover. .....

@1998Exp
Almost certain you meant intake manifold, rather than timing cover? Never have seen anything beneath the timing cover that could drive a distributor. But, I learn more about newfangled **** every day!

Did the "hole" used in early engines for distributor mounting have the same dimensions in EDIS 5.0? EFI manifold would be different than the carb. manifold, so ?? imp

 

[1998Exp]

@1998Exp
Almost certain you meant intake manifold, rather than timing cover? Never have seen anything beneath the timing cover that could drive a distributor. But, I learn more about newfangled **** every day!

Did the "hole" used in early engines for distributor mounting have the same dimensions in EDIS 5.0? EFI manifold would be different than the carb. manifold, so ?? imp

1) Indeed, mistyped.
2) It's my understanding that the after-market version of EDIS does not use camshaft sensing at all, and relies on the 36-tooth crank position sensor only (just like the 2nd gen Explorer waste spark system). But I have no experience with EDIS whatsoever, so no idea about the Ford original EDIS from three decades ago.

 

[imp]

1) Indeed, mistyped.
2) It's my understanding that the after-market version of EDIS does not use camshaft sensing at all, and relies on the 36-tooth crank position sensor only (just like the 2nd gen Explorer waste spark system). But I have no experience with EDIS whatsoever, so no idea about the Ford original EDIS from three decades ago.

@1998Exp
IMO your understanding of this material goes way beyond having experience with it. Experience hands-on is one thing, far more important 50 years ago than today, but actually messing with the components used today reveals very litttle about the thinking that went into implementing them. If I had to design an EDIS system, I would ****-can any thoughts of cam position sensing, and use crank position exclusively. One can only guess that the designers were gearing up for variable valve timing early on, and wanted to get cam position sensing "locked-in" technically.

I must very much respect your ability to understand and work with today's stuff. Wish I had it! imp

 

[boominXplorer]

The main reason cam timing is used is to keep the ignition timing spot on with timing advance. There is slack in all timing chains and it makes sure the ignition is following the valves. If the timing is off far enough cam & crank codes will come up in computer.

 

[Josh P]

My van has edis and no cam sync sensor.

 

[boominXplorer]

Obd2 (1996) is when then cam sensor was added in just about every model.

 

[imp]

The main reason cam timing is used is to keep the ignition timing spot on with timing advance. There is slack in all timing chains and it makes sure the ignition is following the valves. If the timing is off far enough cam & crank codes will come up in computer.

@boominXplorer
True that! The old EEC-IV in the early '90s seemed to do remarkably well, without monitoring cam timing, for my money. Convinced me to throw away carburetors forever. Of course the old one-chain drive threw in sme variables, and I figgered back then, if I had my druthers, I'd get crank position info right off the snout of the shaft. Talkin' about the 5.0HO Mustangs, not any of the other engines having OHC. imp

 

[boominXplorer]

The actual spark voltage/amperage is much greater on EDIS vs Distributer stock for stock. The few ponies lost /degrees it could be off using crank timing was gained back by the better direct ignition source.

 

[CDW6212R]

The main reason cam timing is used is to keep the ignition timing spot on with timing advance. There is slack in all timing chains and it makes sure the ignition is following the valves. If the timing is off far enough cam & crank codes will come up in computer.

Ditto, the crank sensor is the primary source to run the ignition etc, but it needs the other sensor to know where the #1 cylinder is, versus #6. The crank only identifies four TDC cylinder positions, each of which are shared by two cylinders. So the cam sensor is still very important.

 

[SoHK_alumni]

The basic wiring will be pretty simple. Only a dozen or so wires between the engine and body.

Yea, a 96 or 97 would ease PATS and speed signals but the PATS pieces can easily be wired in (gotta have the matching ignition key head to zip-tie into the PATS transceiver). A 97 or earlier transmission output shaft and tailcone would allow for an in-line VSS and a speedo cable.

Only catch is the output shaft is about the first thing into the transmission case on a rebuild so swapping is a bit of a chore. Up side, many later 4R70W's do already have an output shaft with the drive teeth for the VSS or speedo cable drive so with a bit of luck, you won't need to dig all the way through the transmission.

Ford used an in-line cable driven VSS for years so getting a good electronic speed signal to the PCM and a mechanical cable to the speedometer is very doable.

 

[1998Exp]

@1998Exp
IMO your understanding of this material goes way beyond having experience with it. Experience hands-on is one thing, far more important 50 years ago than today, but actually messing with the components used today reveals very litttle about the thinking that went into implementing them. If I had to design an EDIS system, I would ****-can any thoughts of cam position sensing, and use crank position exclusively. One can only guess that the designers were gearing up for variable valve timing early on, and wanted to get cam position sensing "locked-in" technically.

I must very much respect your ability to understand and work with today's stuff. Wish I had it! imp

Thanks for the compliments. Seems that we have something in common -- both EE and ME degrees - which may help a bit with auto repair Now, if I could diagnose what's wrong with my TV power supply board without the benefit of a schematic....

 

[1998Exp]

Ditto, the crank sensor is the primary source to run the ignition etc, but it needs the other sensor to know where the #1 cylinder is, versus #6. The crank only identifies four TDC cylinder positions, each of which are shared by two cylinders. So the cam sensor is still very important.

Not if it's a waste spark system (like on the 2nd gen Explorers). These fire two opposing cylinders at once, and make no use of the cam sensor for ignition timing.

 

[CDW6212R]

Okay, it's not for the ignition timing, but the fuel timing. These are SFI engines, not batch fire injection. This gains better fuel control, which can't be done without knowing when each cylinder is at TDC for compression.

 

[imp]

Thanks for the compliments. Seems that we have something in common -- both EE and ME degrees - which may help a bit with auto repair Now, if I could diagnose what's wrong with my TV power supply board without the benefit of a schematic....

@1998Exp
Hit it lightly with a rubber hammer, as I did my Bank 1 cat. Codes gone, 1000 miles now, after fighting that SOB several months! imp

 

[1998Exp]

@1998Exp
Hit it lightly with a rubber hammer, as I did my Bank 1 cat. Codes gone, 1000 miles now, after fighting that SOB several months! imp

May work, though I am not sure where exactly should I hit. Suspecting the PFC (power factor correction) controller IC - is that a good spot? Incidentally, there are no codes - that Toshiba TV power supply won't flash any codes -- obviously because it has no power to run self-diagnostics
On a bit more serious note, unlike automakers, consumer electronics manufacturers do not provide any service manuals to the general public - at any price. Wondering if there is a way to twist their arm to submission somehow.