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Tuning my 347 with rear mount turbo


4pointslow

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The best way to dial in that table might be to get the whole truck on a dyno and see what real torque output is at each rpm and load range.
Don Lasota probably would have used a table that was generated by him and others who did the work to increase torque of the engine, and then ran it on the dyno themselves to see where it all was and then the table was saved as an example to get you close as possible without running your vehicle on the dyno.
If Don himself wasn't involved, it probably would have been someone at SCT.

Keep in mind that if your vehicle was not modified in the exact way then you would have to adjust for the differences (On dyno), to be exact.

The Factory load table you posted goes up to 1.250, what is your datalogging showing for max load at WOT?
 


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Dono

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for max load at wot, the last datalog was about 1.09
 




Dono

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ok, I hope I can actually get to the dyno stages without taking out the thrust again. lol.
I also think for the time being I'll stick with those wild arsed settings that are lower than Don Lasota's to bring the pressure down some.

Thanks for helping with whats required to actually know the right way to adjust this table.
 
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Dono

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ok, 2 steps forward, 3 steps backwards
While my motor is out, and I keep correcting possible issues that have been difficult for me to resolve, I focused on the warm start issue I have always had.
When the motor is warm, and has sat for a while, it wont start without touching the gas.

There are adjustments for this, but....Even when I would get it right by killing the motor and re-starting, one the truck sat for a while (Say 20 min, it wouldnt start without toughing the gas.

I have been back and fourth with Don Lasota about this, and he came to the conclusion with me that an injector has to be leaking slightly, and that the injector data on the Deka injectors I'm working with is in question.

I wen't down the road of sourcing new injectors. As always, I did this in a backwards fashion. I should have just emailed Don Lasota immediately, before doing all kinds of research on my own. Don told me to not waste my money on anything but Injector Clinic Injectors. He said he has has vehicles he just couldn't tune properly (including deatschwerks) and moved to injector clinic injectors and the tuning issues were resolved.

So, I started emailing injector clinic abut my application, and that I need odd scaling as the explorer returnless fuel system is somewhere between 60 and 65psi. Tim as injector clinic confirmed that no other manufacturer of injectors spends the time they do to make sure their data is exactly correct and that scaling with provided data would be very easy. As an added bonus, the injectors are flow matched much better. Definitely the Cadillac (Not just any cadillac, the CTS-V, lol) of injectors.

Having these injectors, I'm confident that if I have issues, I will have support from the manufacturer, and Don Lasota. This is REALLY important to me.

So, like everything else in this project, I dug deep in to my pockets and spent more money I don't have.
650cc (62lbs/hr at 43.5 PSI fuel pressure) FIC Fuel Injector Clinic Injector Set for Mustang GT (2005-2016 )/GT350 (2015-2016)/ Boss 302 (2012-2013)/Cobra (1999-2004) (High-Z)
 




gmanpaint

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62#! Wow!

I wouldn't have thought of the injectors for a hard warm start, as I only considered fuel related starting issues, as vapor lock on a carbed engine, or loss of pressure on EFI.

Good to know!
 




Dono

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yea, a slight leak in one while the fuel fail pressure is up causes a small puddle in the lower intake manifold creating a hard start. When the fuel rail pressure goes down and the motor is cold, suddenly the truck starts fine.

I'd tune so the truck would start fine at all temps if I shut down and restarted fairly quickly, but as soon as I left the truck for more than 10 minutes it needed help starting. Then once the motor was stone cold, there was no issues starting it at all. I'm guessing rail pressure was down by then, and any leaking in to the lower intake had quit.

This fault was more of a quirk, but I kinda have the same thoughts about 'Quirks' you do, and really want my truck to be like a factory drive-ability type drive. This might not be possible though.

All the stuff we post is worth it, as it just might save someone else some pain down the road.
 




vroomzoomboom

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not so sound like a ass, so explain why i dont have that.....yet. who knows what will happen when the new blower goes on
 




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Wow, almost 500 lbs of fuel per hour? That has to be a record.

That's all I got now, just watchin'
 




Dono

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I think the problem I have is 2 reasons:
1. Return-less fuel system- Without correct injector data, Scaling just gets further off when I scale to the 62-63psi
2. I have a leaking injector that is faulty (At least I hope I do at this point, since I really want to be able to make my warm start issue go away).

Jon, I already had 60lb Siemens Deka injectors, and I was at about 80% duty cycle. There's no reason to go with a smaller injector, as I wasn't having idle issues with the Siemens units anyway. The new injectors will be more precise at lower duty cycles anyway, so I'll stick with the same cc of injector I had.

All I know is that I have not been able to resolve the warm start thing ever since I started with the these Siemens injectors and have not been able to resolve it.

It's driving me to drink (like I need a reason to drink), as it's best guess.
 
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vroomzoomboom

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im trying to remember. didnt you send them to western turbo to be cleaned and checked?
 




Dono

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Yes, yes I did.
Iv'e been told that one or two could easily still have a minor leak as it takes very little too much as to the lower intake to create a rich condition for startup.
 




4pointslow

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Just for the record, I have always had an intermittent hard restart due to my fuel pressure dropping after shut off.
The reason for mine was the fuel pressure dropping off shortly after the pump stops.
My Mallory adjustable fuel pressure regulator was not designed to hold fuel pressure very long after shut down.
In light of the fact that it is very hard to find things that fit in my engine compartment, I just live with it.
Of course my "race truck" is no longer a daily driver for me.
 




Dono

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End of the day, I just might have bought some injectors that are not going to make any difference. I don't know. If I still have this delayed warm start issue after the injectors go in, I can rule out the injectors. It will be an expensive lesson.

Don Lasota says Injector Clinic injectors is he likes to use, and I won't be disappointed. He doesn't even sell them. I have some cash riding on him being correct. lol
 




vroomzoomboom

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for the record
return system
trickflow fpr
fast 60 injectors
summit fpr gauge mounted to the regulator
when i turn the key fuel pump kicks on, fuel pressure comes up, pump kicks off, pressure drops back to zero on the gauge.
you have heard evil start both hot and cold so i dont have to describe it
 




Dono

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I'm still factory returnless, and pressure stays up after ignition shut off.
That's where the leak might be occurring in my case. In your case, pressure drops right away, so there is no fear of leaking unless an injector is really bad.

I do not want to convert to return style. I know that's the right thing to do though.
 




gmanpaint

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I understand the Meh.... on the return conversion. Just Pick your battles one at a time, and in order of importance.

Kind of like me trying to decide, if I should try bacon bits in my green bean casserole, this Ex-mas. It works w/o it, but probably better with it. :D
 




Dono

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Injector Clinic injectors showed up.
On to the next issue:

The low slope seems to be out of range in the SCT software. When I apply the multiplier for 62.5psi the data wont key in. The highest I can go is .0311 when I need .0347.

I'm wondering if I may end up converting to a return style fuel system after all. I really don't want to try to scavenge a different tank pump assembly, drop the tank to replace, and run another fuel line.

upload_2018-12-31_21-38-54.png
 




vroomzoomboom

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If you do, remember, I still have the stroker truck, with the tank, and lines. Not sure I would trust the pump however
 




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Dono

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lol. Thanks Tim.

I just have a very bad feeling that I will have to do this. Not till its warm though, and by then I'll know for sure what I need to do. Once its warm, I'll also be able to look at your truck and how the lines are ran and adapted to your fuel rail. I'm hoping I don't have to go down this road, but at this point its really not a big deal I guess. The kids bought me a really nice Creeper for Christmas. Sits nice and low, and has a comfy head rest.
 




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