Tuning my 347 with rear mount turbo

[gmanpaint]

I feel the same way about replacing the brake line in the frame rail. It looks like a nightmare, but it probably isn't as bad as I think.

You could always make a floor access door for the fuel pump, if you don't want to drop the tank. lol

Your also making me want to learn how to use the SCT, that I haven't even plugged in yet. Guess I should update it first.

 

[4pointslow]

Email Don Lasota,
He should know what to do since he recommended the injectors.
I thought the high slope was supposed to be higher than the low slope?
It is late and I am low on brain function though. LOL

 

[Dono]

I just sent the email to Don. I was hoping he will have something to say about it. I sent him my tune file and the spreadsheet I'm working on. If it is an Advantage issue, I'm sure Don would have better luck dealing with SCT than me.

I just reset the injector values in Advantage to default to make sure the high slope is lower than the low value, and it is.
I'm hoping that I'm making an error in my multiplication, but I don't think so. I'm hoping Don has a good suggestion for me.

It is strange, as usually the advantage software kicks an error if your out of range, but in this case it doesn't. It just drops the value to a very low number without warning.

Happy New year everyone! May our vehicles live on and give us no grief!

 

[Dono]

Don emailed back.
Issue #1 was my inability to multitask. Don actually suggested ID Injectors. I guess trying to to multiple things at once really does create issues. oops.
Those Injector Dynamic injectors are crazy expensive. I'm not to excited about that.

So, I say to myself, lets just see if the injector data on the ID1050's at 60psi will key in to my SCT tune. Guess what? One of the id1050 values are out of range also.

Don says to just tune around the low slope issue with the maf curve. He is pretty sure I can make it work. I think he's right, as its the low slope before the breakpoint to the high load stuff.

The white elephant in the room is to convert to return style fuel system and insert the correct injector data. This is obviously the right thing to do. There will be hose and fitting costs, a regulator (These look like a couple hundred bucks for a good one), a return style in tank pump assembly (Donor vehicle), and possibly a new high flow pump if my current one wont fit in the new assembly (Possible offset issue).

I am going to run with the Injector Clinic injectors (They are, after-all, high end injectors) and start by trying to tune around the issue. Plan B (Or possibly part of the over all plan just to do things properly) will be to convert to return style fuel system.

 

[gmanpaint]

I love it when others casually spend my $$ like it's no big deal. Have to be careful here, before you know it, you have a 2nd mortgage to pay off.

We don't always need the very best of everything to enjoy life, sometimes the bare minimum, is more than enough.

With that said, I think your approach is logical by using what ya got, and trying to make it work. It would be different, if they just won't work, but they should, so yeah....Run what ya brung.

 

[Dono]

Yea. This is expensive. We all knew this going in, but my eye's still water. I cry myself to sleep sometimes, lol.

What I really need is a reliable vehicle that I'm not embarrassed to drive. Currently I don't have that.

I did hear back from Tim ad Injector Clinic, and he says I'm pretty much screwed with the older Ford ecu I have and 60psi. He says I need to resort to work arounds by scaling. Unfortunately, no magic bullet. Full circle back to 'the right thing to do is go return style to get fuel pressure down'.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

well, if you are or going to have to convert to return system, and need to be sure that is the problem, as said, we can get the stock line from the stroker truck. the size of the return line doesnt matter. we can also see if the sending unit will work as well (or if it still good from sitting all these years). but if i remember correctly, @ahodges had some fitment issues with the jug (both his truck, and the stroker are 96's). as well as, we can take the fpr off evil and make sure this is your problem before spending more money on parts that you may not need

 

[Dono]

If I can tune around the 60psi and it works great then I won't go down the returnless road.
If I'm still having issues, then I will go return style so the injector data is correct. At least then it's one less possible issue.

Yes, I hope Andrew chimes in if he has converted to a return fuel system. I'd love to hear what just worked, and what needed extra attention. Truthfully, all modified performance vehicles tend to be return style fuel system. Hearing that the jug might not fit doesn't excite me much, as fuel is kinda one of those things that we want to do properly. I wonder if I just swapped the whole tank?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

what i meant to say was his truck is a 96. his is a return system. they were return up to 99. if i remember correctly was when he went to add a bigger pump, he had to do something with the jug thats on a 96. the stroker truck is also a 96, but it has a 255 pump in it already, but i am not sure of what shape both of them would be in from sitting for so long

 

[Turdle]

What I really need is a reliable vehicle that I'm not embarrassed to drive.

It hits like a hammer huh?

 

[Dono]

Yea Jon, it sure does. I'm going to need to do something, but all my money is going in to a truck that has an empty engine bay. How dumb am I?

Tim, I'd want to replace the pump for sure. I have a Aeromotive Stealth Electric Fuel Pump 11542 340lph that has an offset outlet. I'm not sure what the 96 would require without looking at it. Some modifying isn't the end of the world, as long as I still get a good seal on the bucket housing. I'll look thru Andrew's thread and see what I can find there.

 

[gmanpaint]

all my money is going in to a truck that has an empty engine bay. How dumb am I?.

That statement rings true for me, more than most realize. I feel ya here!! It's not dumb at this point, it's past any $$ values, and is a personal vendetta to see it to completion. This is known as "Hobbyist obsessive control disorder", or HOCD, for short. I suffer from it bad. lol

When your this deep into a project, and you keep at it, regardless of the pitfalls, it is no longer just an object, it is an all around personal quest, you have to complete. Only people that have been through this, understand. Those that haven't, will never get it. ($2-3k thrown at a $1k rig just isn't the same)

Are the tanks different for delivery styles?

 

[Turdle]

tanks should be the same.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

($20-30k thrown at a $1k rig just isn't the same)

fixed it for you

 

[gmanpaint]

Tim, those are the people that DO get it. lol

 

[4pointslow]

Dono,
The injector thing started with the thought that an injector is leaking?
Did you ever pressure test the injectors in the rail while watching the tips to see if one was in fact leaking?
The reason I ask is because most of the high performance fuel pumps don't have a one way check valve in them and they bleed the pressure down shortly after the pump shuts off causing hard restarts?

 

[Dono]

I thought about trying to pressure test, but the only way to test 60psi and not have the injectors push out is to pressure test in a lower intake flipped upside down, or build some bracketry ti hold the injectors to the rails.

My fuel system stays pressurized after shut down. I confirmed this with numerous engine pulls, taking the pressure out of the system by spraying gas all over when removing the fuel line. I tried de-pressurizing with the shrader valve, but it was more time consuming and still messy.

What started me thinking it was a leaky injector is that a guy on the corral described what sounded like exactly the issue I have and tried all the steps I have taken, including taking the injectors in to be tested at a shop (I used a diesel turbo shop) and they tested ok by the shop he used, and the shop I used.

In hind site, I should have bought a set of the same injectors I had. I thought I was doing a good thing by buying higher end injectors. I'm hoping I still have, but wont know until I start tuning.

 

[Dono]

Ok, Posting up a new thread on converting to return style fuel pressure.
I'm in no rush. Maybe towards the end of next month I'll start collecting parts. In the new thread I do have a question on the return push lock fitting size though.
returnless to Return style fuel conversion

 

[Dono]

ok, so....Where do I stick the water/meth injector?
I need to get it after the maf. Currently its in the elbow before the maf and the motor bogs as soon as the meth starts injecting. I can see in the logs the maf is not happy about meth spraying where it is at all (I see the maf counts jump to max counts randomly when looking at the log during the bog).

I don't think I have room in between the maf and throttle body. I think I need to pull my intake elbow off and add the jet there. I have a solenoid I can install to keep siphoning from happening under vacuum.

Thoughts? @4pointslow

 

[4pointslow]

Can you move the maf somewhere else? Further back?
I remember you had it in another place but had problems and moved it. I cant remember all the details though.
After the throttle plate(in the elbow) should work if you have the solenoid that will close so the vacuum doesn't suck the water meth bottle dry at Idle.

I am after the MAF and before my throttle plate but that is easy since I have a supercharger instead of turbo.