V8 swap thread discussion

[gmanpaint]

I have a 2001 sohc 4.0 sport trac 4wd. My donor vehicle is a 2000 5.0 explorer eddie bauer. I believe it is AWD, did not see any selectors, like in my truck for 2wd, 4hi, 4low, so Im guessing my ST will be awd when completed. Question is isn’t the awd controlled in each differential? Also are there eddie bauer models that are not awd/4wd. I just got a 10 minute quick show of the explorer in pouring rain, will try and look underneath today.

Once you identify if it is a 2wd or an AWD Explorer, you can then decide what to do. Easiest way to find out, is to look for CV axles to each front wheel. The AWD has a different transmission, and has a 4404 transfer case behind it.

The AWD is full time, and there are no switches for it. The 4404 does not have low range gearing to change to, nor has the ability to select front or rear, or both differentials.

If you want 4wd, and a low range, you can change the transfer case to a 4406. That 4406 will bolt right up to the AWD transmission. Threads are available here, with detailed instructions on how to do this.

Someone else will have to chime in on the 2wd EB question, as I don't know the answer to that. Your on the right track by researching this swap. Keep at it, until your fully armed with all the information needed, and take notes as you go.

 

[palavine1951]

Chris, get a BW 4406 transfer case that has the electronic shift activator setup. You can use your shift motor and have 4hi and 4 low.

 

[Chris Cajun]

I guess a 4406 will be in the works! I like the 4wd over awd. Do you need a different rear drive shaft? Specs show my 01 sport trac at 125” wheelbase, and the 99 explorer at 111”. Lastly what year f150’s 4406 transfer case would anyone recommend for this setup. Thank you all for the help!

 

[boominXplorer]

I had to make a extend a Expedition driveshaft for my v8 ranger swap. With my swap and lift I couldn't find one without dings in the junkyard that would work for me. Extended cab Ranger is same wheelbase as Sport Trac.

F-150 rear shaft is close depending on cab length but I never could get one that wasn't bent from a forklift at the junkyard.

 

[410Fortune]

yeah they are all bent up anymore.... Find a junk yard that does not forklift every truck (smaller) or Use craigslist to find your driveshaft.
You can get a "dinged" up one also and have it re tubed, I usually have to build the rear driveshaft for my conversions anyways.......

 

[Chris Cajun]

It’s getting there. Trying to get everything in order!

 

[Scotts96sploder]

I’m going the other way, already 5.0 but need 4wd. Looks like I need to pull the trans from a 5.0? Is the bell housing different from the other motors?

 

[CDW6212R]

I’m going the other way, already 5.0 but need 4wd. Looks like I need to pull the trans from a 5.0? Is the bell housing different from the other motors?

The 5.0 transmissions have two bolt starters, the modular engines use three bolt starters, so those transmissions don't swap.

But all you need is the output shaft and tail housing from a 4WD trans, what shape is your trans in? The trans has to come out and apart to swap the output shaft. You could rebuild yours if you like how it works, you know it already. That would be a good time to do valve body upgrades, $200 or so beyond a normal rebuild.

 

[Scotts96sploder]

The 5.0 transmissions have two bolt starters, the modular engines use three bolt starters, so those transmissions don't swap.

But all you need is the output shaft and tail housing from a 4WD trans, what shape is your trans in? The trans has to come out and apart to swap the output shaft. You could rebuild yours if you like how it works, you know it already. That would be a good time to do valve body upgrades, $200 or so beyond a normal rebuild.

That is an option, I was going to pull the correct one and have it rebuilt. I’m doing a sas, so I figured I’d have a “brand new” trans to go with it. The guy quoted me $1500 to “bulletproof” the 4r70w and mate an np205 to it. Does that sound like a lot? I suppose I could just have him do the same with my 2wd trans.

 

[CDW6212R]

Pricing trans work is tough, because so many shops do different things at different prices. Most trans shops will want say $2500 minimum for a basic rebuild, and most of that labor is for the trans R&R. A bench build is where you take them the trans, so a lower price like $500-$750 may be fair, but that's just for a rebuild also.

Doing anything beyond a rebuild is harder because of the fewer shops that will do it. Changing various internal parts with aftermarket parts is zero labor difference from a rebuild, but most shops won't do it because they consider all aftermarket parts, potential causes of future issues. Sp you have to find a shop that isn't that stupid or chicken.

Bullet proofing a trans which is already very strong is a bad subject, it means different things to different people or shops. Every Ford automatic can benefit greatly from valve body upgrades, yet virtually no one will do it themselves, which is not hard. Shops as a whole won't do it out of fear, "shift kits" have a bad reputation from all builders, and most shops won't even consider the rare available hard part upgrades.

The 4R has several VB upgrade items available from Sonnax, I suggest all but the higher pressure PR valve. They have invented a new VB kit part that better improves the overall pressure, called a Boost valve kit, about a $75 part kit. That and all of the other VB stuff is great for any 4R of any age or mileage, at any time(right after a rebuild, or before one).

The 4R is capable of handling virtually anything any Explorer has ever had for power or stress, but there are about three other internal hard part upgrades. All are from Sonnax, but they are all fairly expensive given they really are only needed for very high power, or super high stress applications. They have two new forward drums, both are much better than stock, and one allows an extra clutch pack for very high power. They recently came out with a new direct drum kit, also for very high power, and that one is about $600+ with multiple parts in it. That one includes a super strong stub shaft, different from their prior stub shaft(new one is unique and required for the special drum). Those parts together can be over $750 easily depending on the source. Those parts are not needed for 99.99% of 4R builds.

So when the subject of bulletproofing comes up, always ask what that means to them. A trans shop should have the expertise and skills, tools, to clean and identify all problems, which personal builds often don't have. I can build a trans, but I don't have the shops testing equipment or vast experience with rebuilding. There's a time for being cheap, but the many shops are very valuable too. I respect them all, I just wish they would be more helpful with doing things beyond a simple rebuild.

 

[410Fortune]

the two new Sonnax forward drums came down from the 4r75w I believe.
Great post Don!

 

[CDW6212R]

the two new Sonnax forward drums came down from the 4r75w I believe.
Great post Don!

Interesting, I don't know anything of the 4R75, but I think the Sonnax parts are made in a more expensive way, while the OEM drums are all stamped steel. I have one of each new in boxes, but haven't gotten to build one yet. I have their direct drum kit too, but have to locate a stub shaft hub or whatever the right name is for it(what the stub shaft goes through) from an AODE first. Their special stub shaft that comes with the direct drum is larger than the OEM version, and their replacement/stronger one.

That will be for my 99 Explorer work truck, close ratios using the AODE planetary parts, and the stock 4.10 gears unless I think it could use 4.56's, once I get the 306 in it.

 

[waren]

My 2000 V8 AWD explorer that I’ve owned for over 16 years was recently written off while parked in a hit and run (front rad and support were not damaged). My daughter grew up in this vehicle, learned to drive in it and wanted it for her own. What follows is a plan to resurrect the explorer. I found a 98 V6 4WD and would like to swap the V8 drivetrain and interior over.

I have read the V8 swap thread sticky here and on TRS.

Things I think I know;
1) both trucks are PATS B
2) the 2000 V8 has a returnless fuel system
3) the 1998 V6 has a return fuel system
4) the instrument cluster is the same
5) brake booster seems to be the same although it is labeled 5L in my 2000.
6) heater core and A/C evaporators are same
7) air bags have different part numbers
8) 2000 V8 is EB tan leather heated seats
9) 1998 V6 is grey cloth non heated seats I assume

things I do not know;
1) why in the sticky was a jumper required to extend the engine harness for the same year (both 98)? Is it because one was a sport? I would have assumed that the engine harness connector would be located at the same point on the body.
2) I don’t have ready Alldata what is the best source to confirm if ford changed pinouts of the engine harness from 98 to 2000? In the sticky both vehicles are 98’s. Would you trust the cheap electronic factory manuals, should I buy two sets of ford OEM manuals, sign up for all data?
3) the more I dig into the details of this swap for engine, PATS, climate control and tan airbags (for tan dash to match tan leather interior), I just gave up assumed I was going to be completely gutting both trucks and swapping main, engine and interior harnesses. Is this total insanity? Is there a better way? Should I abandon the interior and airbag swap? If so please explain.

things I need to research;
1) a way to add the V6 key to my PATS system before I do the swap without a trip to the dealer. It should work if I cut a non PATS key for my truck and that way there will only be one PATS key near the PATS ring when the key is cycled. I admit I did not search this but I don’t want to forget

 

[410Fortune]

1. correct
2. correct
3. the 98 can be returnless you have to look, it was half way through 98 they switched. One fuel line at the fuel rail or two. You can install the fuel tank, line and returnless system from the 2000 into the 98 if needed.
4. instrument cluster MIGHT be the same, they look similar BUT sometime in 98 when they switched to returnless they also switched from analog to digital signals in some sensors, some lights moved positions, etc no biggie, the clusters are easy enough to modify slightly as needed.
5. v6 and v8 boosters compatible
6. correct
7. airbags you swap as a whole system, two bags and the brain at same time, 98-2000 should be compatible but not my area of expertise as I usually disable airbags in my rigs

1) I have never built a jumper....you can gain enough length on the engine side harness to reach the v8 harness even in a v6 ranger

2. Screw Alldata, I call it "nodata" because sometimes they are WRONG. I know alldata is autozone and they are the biggest, etc....but what you need is the wiring books for both trucks, can be found on ebay used under $20 each. YOu will see there are only a couple of wires that need to change positions to go from 98 v6 to 2000 v8

I am bitter because I used Alldata to purchase info about timing a 2002 VW beetle engine and the info they gave me told me to use the crank mark for the TDC 0 timing mark....it cost me a new head and labor.....what they didnt tell me is that the crank balancer was mounted on rubber and they are known to MOVE so I should have used a mark on the actual crank......$1800 a head rebuild with new valve job later the car was running..... I should have bought the book

3. Just install the 2000 V8 drivetrain........... plug it in........move a couple of wires..........maybe swap in the returnless pump, lines.......... its really that simple. You will need to use the 2000 key lock and tumbler, swap over the pats module and PCM....that's about it. Once the truck is running there are several ways to program the v6 key to the v8 pcm so you can go back to the v6 lock and tumbler.... or just swap out the drivers door lock cylinder and tail gate lock cylinder for the v88 stuff,..........this way one key fits whole truck. My friend Brett lent me his "Star commander" old tool that can do the Pats key programming in house........not always a trip to dealer needed.

 

[waren]

Thanks for the information 410!

I think it is a late 1998 build so maybe I won’t have to change the tank and pump over. One less job would be awesome.

I will try to get my hands on some wiring diagrams ... thanks for sharing your experience with Alldata I feel you pain man.

I really want to try and swap the interior and hvac from my EB to the V6 xlt I think pulling the dash would be the worst of this ... but I need the wiring diagrams to see how the harness is configured between engine, chassis, HVAC etc.

 

[410Fortune]

dashes are PITA your first time, after that you can see its just like 8 big bolts that hold the whole thing in so it only takes a couple of hours to swap......first time whole day....after that half day

 

[waren]

haha ... good to know.

Looking at the EATC and steering wheel swap

Eddie Bauer Steering Wheel Swap

My 2001 XLT has the steering wheel cruise buttons, but it would be nice to have radio buttons as well. Has anyone swapped an EB steering wheel into a regular EX and successfully hooked up the radio controls?

www.explorerforum.com

I think it will be easier and risk of damaging the clock spring if I just pull the entire steering column.

 

[CDW6212R]

The air bag systems changed for 1999, side bags were an option but the module expects one whether the truck has it or not. So if you have side air bags in your 2000, and want those to be functional, swap all of those 2000 parts to the 98. If you do not have the side bag, or don't need them, keep the 98 module. The 99-01 modules will throw codes if the side air bag signal isn't perfect(bad wiring, connector, or the fake sensor). Those are more trouble than it's worth if there are no side bags, so the 98 module solves that.

My 99 has the error code, never had the bag seats and it's a Limited. When I find another 98 air bag module, I'll get that and put it in, that will get rid of the error code.

I thought all 98's had return fuel systems, all of them, the change was beginning of 99. If any 98's have it, I've never heard of it, it'd be super rare. I'd like to see one.

You will need to swap the whole dash to keep the EATC and other high option features, that's easier than changing wiring in the 98.

There was a major wiring change in 1999, the 98's have a much different PDB(fuse box under hood). I don't know how easily the rest of the wiring plugs into that, I leave that to the expert 410Fortune.

 

[waren]

Such great information guys, I just snagged a complete 1998 ford service manual set and it’s on the way.

I do not have side airbags on the 2000 but I haven’t picked up any errors either. Granted I am using a generic scan tool it does check ABS and body modules.

Too bad about the fuel line, being able to have one component be compatible seemed like a win. Oh well.

I had also also assumed that the wiring would be more similar. From the VIN the MY is 1998 with a build date of Aug 98, and in-service date Sept 98 so I assumed it was going to be return-less, and basically a 99 with PATSB etc. I will let you know what I find.

Winter is in the air here today ... if the snow starts to fly I will be doing as 410Fortune suggests and just dropping the drivetrain in.

We need another vehicle and I would rather get working on a solution that be shopping under pressure. In the end, I will trust the finished product more than most of the 6-12 year old used vehicles I’ve looked at in the last two weeks and for a fraction of the cost.

 

[waren]

@CDW6212R some good info you posted above on 4R70W valve bodies I will look into it. My unit has 145k miles on it with fluid changes and filters every 30-50k miles. Its had a pretty easy life shuttling the family around, shifts fine no performance issues.

Since I am going to pull it I’m wondering if there is anything I should do to freshen it up in addition to the VB at that mileage. In the past I’ve taken transmissions that are working fine in for a “check over” they always come back rebuilt with no discernible change in performance. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it ortake it in for preventative rebuild?