"Will This Work"

Think this will work?

Last picture is Winter's new work-out equipment

 

[410Fortune]

pictures yes, info not much!
Just the name of the place where he bought everything, this guy was "lo oh oh oh oad-ed"

It was on airbags and running suspension componets all from "Nth degree" or something like that... let me post the pics and find the Jeep aftermarket website

We are sitting there on POision Spyder looking over the cliff for lunch and this Jeep pulls up, you can just tell from the way its setup its *****in, then you hear PFFFFT as his sway bar connects, then more PFFFFFFt and the whole truck lowers 4" when he shuts it off
my jaw hit slickrock
so I got some pics:

 

[BKennedy]

btw not to sound like a smartass

You gotta have more faith in Winter. He spends hours just looking at stuff and thinking thoughts us mere mortals would never understand.:

 

[mounty71]

I saw another jeep with an air suspension too, a green one. But i googled just now quickly and found it's made by a company called airock suspension. Maybe try contacting them.

 

[Paul B.]

Sorry guy's, I did not get the full bio on Winter's bracket work before I posted. . As you can see he corrected me after I talked to him this morning. I'm just the finance guy in this project but am learning alot from Winter. Will post more picture's when the complete bracket work is finished.

 

[spotter guy]

Thanks Brian: and 410 I have seen that air-suspension kit in action. I chose a RAM so I can put air on either side of the piston or both and control sway, ride height, and spring rate. Also the ram idea is an assisted system therefore if something goes wrong I can still get home...... I can't wait to try it.....

 

[R.J.]

i can't believe this thread is from 04-06-2008..... and i just noticed it now!

i didn't know there was a paul b thread, i thought it was still in hiding! somebody should've known something was wrong when they didn't see any posts by me :


(now in response to this masterpiece, work of art, soon to be legend, fabrication icon)

wow! wow wow wow wow wow! how am i supposed to find words to compliment you when your car leaves me speechless.

explorer, offroad, technology, inovation, attention to detail, trying crazy things, beautiful fabrication, and the ability to put it all together.

 

[Dannyboy]

Well guys amazing again. But 410, that's airbags, airshocks is a different method. I would say you have more control with airshocks. Not to downplay that jeep with the airbags though, I think the shocks will be more ballin than that.

Kelderman air does make a "kit" for full size trucks to change ride height by about 10" inches on the fly which is totally boss.

I still can't figure out how you can run a shock to run a truck at 6" lift then also at 16" lift but they got a way. Also my experience with bags in my superduty is the truck rides like a brick with 80+ lbs and does not "flex" at all and is much softer with 20 lbs in the bags. I can't imagine a rubber air bag has too much travel, a shock however can pull just as much travel as a coilover and I have no idea how ride handling changes with height.

I saw this kit in person on a solid axled Chevy at Sema '06 and I was pretty dang impressed. There was some control on the front link arms that I still am wondering what the hell it does. End hijack, hopefully this is some brain food for Winter.

 

[410Fortune]

some sort of limiting switch?

It could also be a position indicator for the suspension control computer?? But I would think thats handled through some sort of gyro that measures incline, altitude, etc

Air ram is WAY BETTER then air bags, both are cool, but airbags leave alot to be desired when it comes to ride quality I'm guessing... just like pumping up your tires, when the bags are full full the ride is stiff stiff

 

[94 Crawler]

Yes that switch is a ride height switch they have them on caddys. Mounted simmerly. In the real world that would last abought the first screeeeech.

 

[spotter guy]

Thanks guys for the info.

 

[IZwack]

^---

 

[Paul B.]

Here is a picture of the Ram and the Shock at full 16" droop.

 

[Paul B.]

i can't believe this thread is from 04-06-2008..... and i just noticed it now!

i didn't know there was a paul b thread, i thought it was still in hiding!




RJ, that's because you are so busy working on your own piece of art!!!
It will be great when every one get's their truck's done and we can go out and have some fun with them. That's what it's all about!!!

 

[james t]

Air ram is WAY BETTER then air bags, both are cool, but airbags leave alot to be desired when it comes to ride quality I'm guessing... just like pumping up your tires, when the bags are full full the ride is stiff stiff

Yea, thats why you set it up so the bags give you the ride height you want at the best ride quality psi. In other words, if the bag rides best 40psi in the front and 32psi in the rear, then you build the brackets so that is the ride height you drive at most of the time. Properly set up bags ride like a caddy.

 

[spotter guy]

That makes sense for install. Is there a factor that can be used to determine the pressure needed if you know the weight?

 

[james t]

That makes sense for install. Is there a factor that can be used to determine the pressure needed if you know the weight?

Im sure there is, but i only helped do this once, and we used the "tack the mounts on install everything get it on its wheels drive down the street oh **** thats too high grind them off and try 1.25" lower" method.

 

[410Fortune]

For ride height/ spring rate adjustment like JT said, use a spacer on top of the bag like the jeep above, keep changing out spacers until you get it right? LOL

I like the idea of a pneumatic ram, and I believe winter said you can introduce air to both sides of the piston? extension and return? Wouldnt this allow you to run whatever spring rate you want at whatever height of the suspension?
Keep your sweet spot 400psi spring rate on the highway with the tires tucked, or with the suspension pushed down riding like 10" taller.. that would be so sick!

My mom has a touareg, the air suspension on that truck is so wicked and I think it only has like 5" of travel... I have seen full size trucks on airbags that can raise lower like 8" but in a rock crawler 4 link TTB Exploder with bling and no bags? = drool city

This truck is beyond words now, Im speachless
Come on Lotto!! seriously

 

[spotter guy]

LOL!!!!410 you funny...I don't know about any spring rate I want but a lot more choices that's for sure. I do know that when I want a sway bar I just put air in the bottom port and not let to wheel droop out as much and that will solve the road handling thing. But another possibility could be when I raise the ride height I will be unloading the spring giving me a closer to C/O spring rate and not something super stiff.....I LIKE:

 

[CopyKat]

http://www.wabco-auto.com/products_...electronically-controlled-air-suspension-ecas

The valve is a leveling valve, It lets the ECU know the position of the suspension. Instead of using siolid links, and having to cut the bracket, ise a turn buckle of sorts. This way you are only adjusting the length of the link for your ride height.

The valve is a multi function as it will set a high level and a low level, this valve is active as the suspension is moving and will release air and add air as nessessary to keep the vehicle levelish.

The thing with air springs is you have to find out the design height if not the piston can wear through the bag and you could have other issues. It's usually betweenthe max height and the bumpstop.

Spring rate is determined by air pressure and the volume of air.

Going to be interesting to see this done with air shocks.

 

[spotter guy]

I looked into using the airpod with height sensor and found that they only can work or level the vehicle based off a setting in the controller (BRAIN/ECU) and if not used in conjunction with a pressure sensor they can be quite lazy/slow. Also because this system was designed for the road they only adjust every minute or whatever the designer programmed into the brain and this working best for long flat drives. If the system always wants to have control then I had better use a sonar type system so it can keep my truck level at all times and that is crazy.

Because of all this mumbo-jumbo I decided to go with an assisted air system no sensors. This is were I still use a coil-over with springs and valving and only use the air too further control ride quality someday incorporating a JOYSTICK and program some of my own ideal system settings. The fact of the matter is that air is slow and difficult to control so getting a manual starting point will help me design a system that actually works off road not an air bag system built for road driving that was originally designed in the 60's.

Some things I expect an air assisted system can do:

1. Raise ride height to clear obstacles
2. Lower ride height for highway driving
3. Perform as a swaybar at any height and with great adjustability
4. Move C/G (center of gravity) to counter a rollover
5. Increase spring rate when loaded with camping gear and tools
6. Act as a jack, lifting the wheel off the ground when replacing my front hubs (every trip)
7. Increasing tire traction when climbing, by not letting the up-hill side of the vehicle unloads and the down-hill side squat (inducing the stink bug effect)

These are just a few things I know it can do hopefully I can find more so if you can think of any other possibilities post-them I will add it to the list…Sorry so long