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"Will This Work"

Matt Peterson from Rockware built a buggy with Airbags at all corners and a computer that adjusted them while driving. I saw it in action a few times and it was cool to see it adjust as it soaked up the rocks. It had to be atleast 5 years ago when he built it. He sold it, but maybe I can find some info on it. I will ask him about it next time I see him.
 



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Well, what's new in the fabrication department?




Well, Winter was working on it yesterday and finished up welding the plate's cover's on the shock mount's.

DSC00791.JPG


DSC00792.JPG
 






After the last two pics, i am offically aroused. :jawonfloor:
 






...:eek:...That is some of the finest welding I've ever seen...:biggthump
 






Nice work. That doesn't even need cleaning up. :notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy
 






Winter, Did you finish your Co2 homework?:p:
 






I think so, but if you have anything I am up for a little discussion. So far I see no problem with using liquid CO2 as a power source for the air rams. I know that liquid CO2 is stored under pressure and the vapor floats around 750ish PSI @ room temp. I was wondering if I can compress the vapor back into a liquid if I bottomed out my ram full of CO2. It is possible under the right circumstances, however I think the polar ice caps would have to melt and the earth would need to reverse its rotation. Volume numbers show it is possible I just need to run some more calcs. to find out exactly what it would require. Interesting though lots of systems use CO2 like refrigerants, paint ballers, and robot wars based in UK all incorporate some form of CO2 powered devises. I am more worried about fitting the dam tank. Now that I think about it more, liquid CO2 is a lower pressure than its vapor counter part and I think that once released from a pressurized tank you would get a chilling effect. The liquid is the stage before icing (know as Dry Ice) and that is when it is at its lowest pressure. I am going to look into this a little more and get back to you. Later Skater….:salute:

Ok so I think I have this all figured out, the only problem I may have is when Co2 vapor changes temp. it expands. Meaning it will have more pressure when it gets hot. I also found that vapor/gas Co2 expands 3000 times for every 1 cubic inch of liquid. Thats a whole lot of air.
 






A few years ago at SEMA Sway-A-Way had some air shocks with a built in ram on the bottom. If I remember right it was designed to run off the power steering pump. I think I remember seeing a picture of a buggy at stinkyfab that had it. Might try searching for user stinkbug on pirates.
 












Thanks Matt for the thread. I remember a few people tried this years ago for dezert. Not really sure why but, they had some issues with the seals. The one thing that I read was that the shock shaft had a built in ram (or shaft in-side a shaft) and you were able to get around 8" of stroke beyond full extention of the shock seems cool.
 


















Well, yes, but something's that I can not talk about yet, until I get someone approval, maybe tommorrow! Right now we are working on some new rock slider's, will be getting some new rim's soon (different from the other new set, will be selling that other new set soon) don't ask me why yet (later). Had some other outside cool stuff made (can't talk about that either yet). Winter is finishing up the last of the rear tube welding. Had a little minor setback on the project, but were moving forward again. Want to start getting some of the area's that are finish painted soon and then start working on the front end. Sorry this is so vague, but maybe after tommorrow I can clarified more on some of these thing's.
 












I remember the first time I saw this rig in a video I wanted to know who was running the TTB with the sickass swing set under it, and belive me Winter's name was all over it.


OK, to re-hyjack this thread:



Key Words:

Whamo Toy Wheel thingie

Star Bird (vintage electronic star ship toy)

Inclometer

Sampling rate

CFM

Varible Orfice Valve (VOV)

Venting and re-generation


As I got to the few last pages here I started putting some pieces together in my head for this project, whether you use them or not are to your own discresion.

The automated system your looking at has to self adjust, the human factor has to be removed, the joy stick idea is fine for preadjustments, and a manual over ride is a viable idea, but I belive in order for it to be a sucessfull system something quick has to be implimented.

For us vintage folks lets take the old Whamo toy, the little wheel on the wire, the one you tip down and up to make the wheel follow it down and around and back again.

Step that up to another vintage toy called the Star Bird which was a star ship that had electronic sounds, as you nosed it down ithe sound of the star ship slowed, as you tipped it up the engine sounds increased, and it was proportional.

As a youn curious lad I took the Star Bird apart and noticed it had a ball suspended on to wire rails similar to the Whammo Wheel, as you tipped the star ship down this signalled the electrinics in it to make decending noises, and the opisite for tipping it up.

Now think of an inclometer with a ball and to wire rails, the wire rails are much like a potentiometer, as the ball moves up or down the rails it creates a different resistance value, now you have two of these for "X" and "Y" axis.

The G-Tech, g-meter uses the same technology for mesuring horse power, torque, to make quarter mile times and estimated speed acurately to within +/- 10th of a second.

A PCM/ECU, or "Brain" as Winter calls it, is used for high rate sampling of these axis and for how much movement is actually happening, with the programming diagonal axis can also be calculated "Z", or even a "Z" axis can be intergrated into the system, so it would actually be a 3 channle system.

The PCM/ECU would then control a varible orfice valve (VOV) simliar to the ones used in certian A/C systems to control the flow of air to the strut, and/or venting (here is the speed of air control) now becuase this is an orfice, this will also create a drop in pressure and temature so this also has to be calculated into the equasion, baised on what the vehicle is doing, now in Winter's other calculations you can also incorperate a thermistor resistor to account for temp changes, note that pressure is directly related to tempature, be it at the storage device or/including the air strut it's self since the ammount of use will cause the air in the strut to heat up increasing pressure, allowing the PCM/ECU to vent unwanted pressures, or in the opposite, adding more due to low temps and pressures.

The PCM/ECU can have programming much like a CD player where is over samples the input several times a millisecond, and can make precise adjustments in the same time frame.

Now as a souce for compressed medium, going from memory, liquids can not be compressed, so Winter you'll have to fill me in on the liquid CO2, or nitrogen therory, as for using compressed air, you will obviously need a storage tank, just like you would for anything else, but a compressor that will also sustain the amount of air that will be used, and be able to keep up with the demand for regeneration, and the alotted amount of CFM it will take to sustain this, much like using an air tool, 90psi @ 9.2 CFM, because this sytem will be constantly be ajusting it's self, being it a small amount or large.

There can also be set programs for street use and off road pre-programmed, for ride quality, control, stability and so forth.


Ok, Ok sorry enough of my rambling, I'll stop.


Mr. BKennedy could you direct me to a thread with you front end set up including pictures from under the hood and about the TTB?

BTW, Fantastic work you two!!!




Jeff - going back to watching the thread :eek:
 






Hey SVO, that is all good info and I agree that a system could be built. Thanks for adding in, I think the big question I have is on the physical side of air control. I have been playing with automated pneumatic systems and found they are not smooth when you control the inlet side of a ram. Found that a lot of systems are controlled on the outlet side so the cylinder can fill with air quickly and not jump when at the required pressure. Because of that my set up does not allow me to put flow control on the outlet side. I think I am going to start with a switch box and play with it first. Also I am not sure how a automated system can make adjustments when I am going over bumps. Kinda feel that the system may be adjusting as I am driving up an obsticle and that could be dangerous if not time right. What do you think?
 






wow

Hydraulic elevators use gravity to force the fluid back into the resevoir controlling the decent with just a simple valve, hydraulic elevators also use 2-3-4 even 5 stage jacks, 2:1, 2:4, 4:2:2 roping, etc LOL
they use limiting switches (old school) to adjust for floor leveling. Some of the big ol multi jack freight lifts (like large enough to lift a semi) will use a computer to control pitch/yaw keep the whole slab level, but its much easier using hydraulic fluids

You wont find many hydraulic lifts being built in the US anymore, they are old technology, everythig is roped these days with small gearless PMM motors, too many EPA concerns

You guys are way beyond hydrulic lifts now LOL I am a hands on type person so I am trying to keep up here, I will say this though PICTURES PLEASE LOL

cant wait to see the progress from your post it sounds like you are getting close to having it rolling = very exciting!! truck is so badass thus far
 



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