supercharged 5.0 true fire 98 explorer sport

[Dono]

Nothings easy, or straight forward. Ever. You do this why? Yes, I get back home Friday night, and will be home for the week, so stop by. I'm hoping to have the mustang running by Sunday, as I switched to a slot maf, and I'm really struggling with getting it dialed in. Frustrating. At least you can hear the pump run though.

 

[410Fortune]

Can you put your manifold from the old pump on the new pump?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Nothings easy, or straight forward. Ever.

i blame YOU! it has your old trucks motor so it likes to cause problems and drama lol.

Can you put your manifold from the old pump on the new pump?

never thought of that, will have to look see.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

called meziere, they told me i can change the base of the pump from one to the other! yay me! (thanks for the idea jamie!)
i got off early today so i figured i would quickly change pumps over.....pfffff, ya right. 4 hours later.
the old pump came out easy.

all they said to do was use the new o ring when swapping the bases over, and torque to 40 inch lbs with some blue Loctite.
then the connector disappeared someplace into the body of the truck, which resulted in me having to pull the bumper off to find it. it is now in a different place after that.....
bolt it all up, start adding coolant, then the drip started. had a pin hole in one of the lines. must have rubbed through someplace, lucky for me i had some leftover braded black line that was just long enough. once again, put it all back together, then it leaks at a fitting. i cant win...
turn it on, it is a little quieter then the old pump. start the truck up and let it idle for a bit. evil also self healed itself with the fans. this spring for what ever reason the controller would kick the fans on 10 seconds after start up cold or hot. now for whatever reason the kick on when it gets to temp. the IAT's sat at around 145 sitting idling while the motor was around 180. will see if this helped in the next few days. the back of the interior is all ripped apart trying to figure out what i was getting no sound out of my speakers when the amp tested out fined(?).

 

[vroomzoomboom]

oh, also i called meziere and asked how much it cost to rebuild one of these pumps. they told me around 180ish before shipping. if anyone needs, here is the ebay link i bought the new one for 145 before shipping.

New Meziere WP136S Inline Electric Remote Water Pump Black | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for New Meziere WP136S Inline Electric Remote Water Pump Black at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.ca

 

[Dono]

The whole pump fiasco sounds about right. lol.
Cant complain about the self healing of the fans, other than we can be sure the issue will be back.

My iat's climb to 150 when idling. End of a wot pull is 134. These are in cooler ambient temps.
The recirculating of the hot air at idle on these positive displacement blowers suck(Or is it blow?).
Keep in mind, on my mustang I have the biggest factory style heat exchanger up front with fans. The verdict on the fans is out as any real world testing by guys end up saying the fans don't do much.

On the WP136's, I feel like they come from the factory broken. I bought 1, and it failed (Yes, I make sure the system is completely primed before starting the pump). When sending for warranty, they told me it would take months to repair (Basically our whole summer here), so I bought a second one.
The second one became really noisy by the end of the year. I swapped out the repair unit, and its been fine ever since. So, the 2nd pump went in for a rebuild. Seems like both of us have a spare now. Not sure that I'm a fan of these pumps.

On a side note, after endless frustration, my slot maf is mostly dialed in and my car is driveable (Still need to tweek spark and fuel). Finding a safe road for the wot logging is always a challenge.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

not sure which is worst then. i would have thought the IAT's would have been a lot cooler. same thought about the fans, i dont think they would do much because the rads are not that hot, or warm for that matter. there is also a decent volume of coolant in mine. around 6-7 liters. have heard not so great things about the bosch pumps. was hoping i would be able to drive it to the folks tomorrow, but have a small fitting or hose leak at the moment.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

went for a ride on fathers day. my folks happen to live a few blocks from dono's so of course im going to stop in and say hi (havent seen him for a while, that and his new edge drop top is pretty nice as well, profile pic doesnt do it justice).
i had noticed that IAT's remained respectable going down the highway doing around 60-65ish but when i would slow down to say 50, they would start to clime. once doing around 40 they would stay around 145-150 and it wasnt really all that hot out. made it to dono's and as we talked about our different problems with these pumps, he said something that i clued into real fast. he had mentioned that these pumps were voltage specific and had his just running off the battery without the motor running, then started it. for whatever reason ever since i have had a stroker in my truck, the voltage has dropped from around 14.3 to around 13.6-13.8 v. most would say, not a big deal, but when it comes to sensors that need good power, it is. so when i was driving home, i would notice whenever my volts would drop down for what ever reason, my IAT's would go up. when the voltage would go up, the IAT's would come down. this is also using a 200a alt, with a matching pulley for the crank (7 1/4 crank pulley with a 3 inch alt pulley). the stock crank is 6 1/4 and alt is a 2 1/2 if i remember correctly. if there are any mathematics watching, chime in and tell me that i am still at stock ratio and not under/overdriving the alt. another thing i noticed with his car (kenney bell supercharged 4.6, yes the man is like me, cant leave noth'n alone. first was his v6 explorer, then his 5L limited explorer that he sold to some jerk that converted it to a v6 then sold it, now his mustang lol) was that he has a recovery/coolant reservoir that you can watch flow while its in operation. i dont have that. or at least not the one that has the volume of the one he has, its a little thimble size reservoir with a rad cap on it. i will have to find one of those and mount it someplace.

 

[Dono]

Just talking and sharing stuff is an amazin thing. Never know when something said gives you an idea.
Finding that voltage issue is going to suck.

Great seeing you again btw!

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Just talking and sharing stuff is an amazin thing. Never know when something said gives you an idea.
Finding that voltage issue is going to suck.

Great seeing you again btw!

that voltage issue is a old problem. i know your old truck had a voltage drop, andy's has one, and my old motor had one. dont know why, guess i will have to dive into that again....joy. and as always was great seeing you again and talking car stuff.

 

[Dono]

that voltage issue is a old problem. i know your old truck had a voltage drop.

I fixed it finally, for me at least. The problem changed ownership. I couldnt figure it out.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

I fixed it finally, for me at least. The problem changed ownership. I couldnt figure it out.

just for that, i am going to have to hit kijiji and find something for you to spend your money on. getting you that aluminator block wasnt enough

 

[Dono]

Thinking out loud here on the intercooler pump.
I'm pretty sure these pumps are fine with higher voltage. Maybe call tech support?

If its ok, maybe some kind of a voltage increaser like a 'boost a pump', that up's the output voltage.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Thinking out loud here on the intercooler pump.
I'm pretty sure these pumps are fine with higher voltage. Maybe call tech support?

If its ok, maybe some kind of a voltage increaser like a 'boost a pump', that up's the output voltage.

will call them tomorrow. got today and tomorrow (Wednesday) off so i can do some running around stuff.
i did however find the no sound out of the speakers problem. after bugging a couple of members here that are on my facebook, tracked it down to a harness plug that is in the passengers kick panel. as i found that, my one buddy that works at a auto video store walked up with a new stereo for evil (the old one tested ok, was going to replace it anyways) just as i was going to pop the speakers with a 9v battery. even he hung his head in shame and disbelieve because he had a hard time figuring it out, and there was no mistaking the "pop" a speaker makes when you do that to them lol.
i also cant figure out this coolant leak from the innercooler side of things. thought i had it fixed, then notice antifreeze on the ground. move the truck ahead while i was messing with the stereo which took a couple of hours, no leak on the ground. i swear this truck plays with my mind some days.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

just to do a little catchup on things. called meziere about the voltage thing. what they said was the pump will operate normally up until 10v. at 9 the pump will shut off unit it sees 11v. so thats good to know.
the antifreeze thing is still driving me nuts. sometimes it will leak, sometimes it wont. screw it, if it wants to leak, it can leak. have other things to worry about. like today when i took it for a run into the city. wasnt a really cold day, but wasnt hot either. started to notice coolant temps rise. no biggie figure they would fall. well.....it would reach 205. then 210, then 220. now i panic. pull into on place i had to go. knew i would be a bit so it would cool off. come back out 30 mins later, 195. not bad. then get a couple of blocks away starts to rise. pull into a gas station because it needed fuel anyway. go to start it, and it barely kicked over. also noticed i could hear the fans kick on. now the drive home, 20 mins of highway driving. it came back to around 200, but to me that was still high. now im 5 mins from home, yellow warning starts flashing again. 220 and climbing. get to the house, 247 was the last temp i saw. shut it off, but this time i dont hear the fans. flip the ignition back on and i can see the red LED on in the fan controller. spin the top fan (for what ever reason i dont know) spins fine. go to spin the bottom one, and it feels locked. turns out it somehow sucked itself into the rad.....and for how long it was like that, who knows. that would also explain why she was running hot. will have to look in the morning. started raining after that. hopefully it didnt burn the fan out, or short the controller.

 

[Dono]

Did meziere mention if the pump could run at 17volts?
I definitely see a change in flow from car not runnuing, to car running.
I don't want to go through the pain of testing the pump flow at different voltages, but I do know pump flow is reduced as voltage drops.

Have you thought about spraying water/meth at wot again? Its another layer of pain, but it does work.

I did a wot pull yesterday, and logged 106 degree iats during the pull.
IAT's sat around 120 driving.
Ambient was about 77.

Have you thought about dropping in a factory alternator?

Anyway, first things first.... Get the engine cooling issue sorted out.

We do this why?

 

[Turdle]

Check, or, try a new radiator cap. If they leak, they leak steam pressure ( coolant) and temps spike, and, throw you a real good curve ball.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Check, or, try a new radiator cap. If they leak, they leak steam pressure ( coolant) and temps spike, and, throw you a real good curve ball.

that was the first thing that i thought of. its also of course the cheaps as well lol. more on that in a bit

Did meziere mention if the pump could run at 17volts?
I definitely see a change in flow from car not runnuing, to car running.
I don't want to go through the pain of testing the pump flow at different voltages, but I do know pump flow is reduced as voltage drops.

Have you thought about spraying water/meth at wot again? Its another layer of pain, but it does work.

I did a wot pull yesterday, and logged 106 degree iats during the pull.
IAT's sat around 120 driving.
Ambient was about 77.

Have you thought about dropping in a factory alternator?

Anyway, first things first.... Get the engine cooling issue sorted out.

We do this why?

didnt ask about higher volts.
was thinking about a meth kit, but like you say, another layer of pain.
the alt im using is your old one. i had mine and yours bench tested, and your old one was the hero.
also, is your sensor below your cooler. if i am not wrong a kenny bell make more heat then a heaten, errr eaton.

went and pulled the probe out of the rad, unplugged the fans from the controller, and put a lighter to the temp probe with a volt meter on the end going to the fans. theoretically it should show voltage when it commands the fans to kick on. noth'n. tried it a few more times, same thing, so more then likely the controller has left the chat.
now i go to see what the problem is with the fan. when i had everything apart this spring, i decided to fix the shroud because when i bought it, the guy i got it from cut a corner so it would fit over his rad hose......(bought it used probably 15 years ago). i wanted to fix it so no air would pass around it. i also put a 2 inch alum plate bolted to the bottom of the rad to seal it up as well. i figured that moved causing the fan to hit the rad. backed the plate off, still hitting it. pulled the fan assembly out and found that one blade partially broke, and jammed itself into the fan shroud. because of that, it burnt the motor out (the fan was also wobbling around which didnt help im sure), which also resulted in the controller dying.
joy.
lucky for me i sold some parts (one being to andy, thanks!) earlier this week so i had.....most of the money sitting in my paypal. that way the visit to summit wasnt too crippling. figured, motor is done, fan broken, controller died, might as well just order a fan kit, would be a tiny bit more, but everything is new. also have a battery box relocation coming, different coolant recovery tank for the innercooler on its way as well.

was a expensive day.

 

[Dono]

That low voltage thing is so weird.
I still think there would be great gains in cooling to be had getting at least full voltage to that intercooler pump.

Yes, my iat sensor is after the intercooler, burried pretty deep.
We also need to remember im dealing with a mustang, and mostly a pre-built, bolt on unit.
Your dealing with a manifold that is a one off in the whole world that was built to work in a super tight space in an explorer.
You abviously need to step back and congratulate yourself. What you have done, and are doing, is absolutely awesome.

The Kenne Bell isnt really worse than the other roots units, but because its machined out of a big block to keep it super rigid, it does retain more heat. The air moves thru the rotors pretty fast, and is compressed. The compression of air makes the heat, so were all in the same boat.

In the end, any roots style blower creates lots of heat as it keeps recirculating the boosted(heated) air when the motor isnt consuming it.
Between this, and the parasitic loss of the energy needed to drive the blower I can see why they are loosing popularity.

Its all worth it with that instant, crazy torque.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

so it started off as a said week. for those that dont know i work at a scrap yard. in one part of the yard we have a shredder that gobbles down cars. its kinda heartbreaking seeing some of the stuff that comes in.
this one stung.

not the greatest picture but it will do. i saw it coming down the road and knew what it was before my crane operator could point it out. this is a 2000 limited. this truck also belonged to me for a short amount of time (see page 146 post 2916). this is also the truck which evils motor was from....this is also the truck dono owned for several years before selling it to me, taking all the goodies out, converting it to a v6, then selling it off. it has driven its last mile....but not before i take some parts off, one is already going to live on in evil. more about that in a few days.

parts came on friday. the first thing i wanted to get done was the fans. first thing i noticed on the kit i bought was the temp prob was way bigger then what i have. probably not going to fit in the rad so great. i also really didnt feel like running all new wires for a new controller so the plan was to cut the old wires off the old controller, put connectors on the wires and put them in the new controller.
up until i fount this.

found why i wasnt getting power to the fans. these are the power wires coming out of the controller to the fans. guess i didnt screw the controller up after all. i also think i must have put a lower gauge wire between the fan connector and controller as well (many many moons ago) oh! also the best part! they were live anytime the ignition was on! evil must want to live because there are other wires near these that didnt melt into them. i figured i would do a little trouble shooting. if i did it right, the controller is good, the temp prob is shot. i am going to call flex a lite on monday and beg them to sent me one. they are not cheap either. for now i have a jumper cable on the controller that will turn the fans on a few seconds after the ignition comes on, and they stay on 30 seconds after its switched off.