Bad or Burnt Exhaust smell in cabin during hard acceleration.

[badloser]

well picked up a brand new 15 Ex a couple of weeks ago and noticed the smell on the way home then I find this huge thread about it. I can not believe Ford has not corrected this since 2011. I just hit 900 miles and smell it every morning when I merge on the freeway. uugg

 

[nixhex]

Dealer performed TSB. Smell is still there. Just ordered a portable carbon monoxide detector to see what the levels are in the car. Regardless I will not accept this smelling car. It's going back to the dealer for another try and I am going to start the lemon law process.

Does anyone know if the buy back from the lemon law is more that what you would get for a trade in? I certainly hope so, but I don't want to go through all this crap if its not. Car has about 12k on it. From looking up KBB I would lose close to 10k on it if I traded in right now vs what I paid. Its the limited with the upgraded seating package and all.

 

[nixhex]

As of Friday 4/24, our 2013 Explorer XLT has officially been repurchased by Ford through the Lemon Law process.

Do yourself a favor, if you have this problem, call your state attorney office and start the paperwork. We waited much longer than we should have and ended up with an $8,044 usage back charge for mileage. The sooner you go through the process, the lower the usage charge will be.

Good luck
Jon

If you could answer a few questions it would be great.

Did you go through the whole process of 3 tries and all? If so what did they do to try and fix it each time?

How involved was the lemon law process and how long did it take? Did you need a lawyer or were you able to handle this yourself? What was your mileage if you don't mind sharing?

 

[bburzycki]

Has anyone done any carbon monoxide level testing when these issues occur?

 

[nixhex]

Has anyone done any carbon monoxide level testing when these issues occur?

I plan on doing this on Tue when my detector comes in. But in reality I don't think it matters, because the exhaust gas itself contains other harmful chemicals even if high levels of carbon monoxide are not present. So there is still a health issue:

"According to Environment and Human Health, Inc., vehicle fumes have been linked to asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, cardiovascular disease and cancer. Exhaust fumes may contain ozone emissions; particulate matter; acetaldehyde; acrolein; benzene; 1,3-butadiene; and formaldehyde."

http://www.ehhi.org/reports/exhaust/summary.shtml

 

[bburzycki]

Yes - It will be interesting to see what you find.. I can tell you from my very non scientific tests using a decent monitor / tester..

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DRJ1KQO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I have found some interesting items - but none yet that exceed the "minimum safe standards".

Basically my testing so far is when I smell the stink - I have fired up the tester to check levels.

Up until yesterday levels were very low all the time - 3-6ppm - which is basically equal to nothing based on the tester not really being lab sensitive - but yesterday I noticed the stink I get with hard acceleration and I fired it on to find levels at over 15ppm - while I know:

"Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless, and tasteless gas that is slightly less dense than air. It is toxic to humans when encountered in concentrations above about 35 ppm, although it is also produced in normal animal metabolism in low quantities, and is thought to have some normal biological functions. In the atmosphere, it is spatially variable and short lived, having a role in the formation of ground-level ozone."

I also know that there is now a link from stink to Carbon monoxide level increase.

So right now most of us open a window or vent the car and as expected levels go back to nothing.... and the stink goes away.

But If you were to allow the level to maintain, as in keep windows shut etc I could easily see levels continue to increase. I have to say I rather not be the test dummy for that test - I have enough health issues.

But just to note this is after the Dealer installed the TSB fix. So for those out there that have not had this fix as I recall when mine did not have it these tests could show much greater levels as I know the stink for me was much worse before the fix was done.

 

[nixhex]

Something else I have noticed after the TSB "fix". The car now defaults to recirculate mode on the AC every time the car is turned off and back on as well as every time you adjust the AC. So I have to remind my wife to turn it off every time she gets in the car. I assume this is the opposite of what is supposed to happen as the fresh air should be on all the time.

Needless to say I am calling the dealer again in the morning.

Just to vent. I can say with 100% certainty after all of this Ford will never get mine or my families business ever again. As a life long mustang fan, I was very close to pulling the trigger on a new mustang too. Never again. This is just something you should not have to deal with in the year 2015. Very unacceptable and stressful to have to deal with this on a brand new car! My neighbors were looking at an Explorer too. Guess what not after I took him for a drive in the smell machine, they are now looking at Toyota. They have two twin daughters and would prefer not to poison them before their 3rd birthday. Wake up Ford people and their families are driving around in these things! In no way should I have to worry about my families safety from hazardous gases in my car. If I didn't think I could get significantly more for a lemon law than a trade in I would trade this thing in tomorrow and be done with this crap.

 

[peterk9]

Sorry to hear you are having these issues with your Explorer. I believe the only time 'Recirc' comes on automatically is when you have 'Max A/C' on.

I've had 3 Toyota Highlanders and would take the Explorer over them in a heartbeat. My 2011 Limited was an excellent vehicle. In fact I can't wait to get my hands on a Platinum when my current lease is up.

There are posts here where people have put carbon monoxide detectors in their vehicles and they all seemed to have tested below an levels that would be considered harmful. That said, I would not be wanting to drive around in a vehicle with the smells as described in this thread.

Peter

 

[nixhex]

I've had 3 Toyota Highlanders and would take the Explorer over them in a heartbeat. My 2011 Limited was an excellent vehicle. In fact I can't wait to get my hands on a Platinum when my current lease is up.
Peter

I hear what your saying but it doesn't matter how much I like the car, nothing is worth a safety risk to my family. I would take a KIA any day over this explorer if the KIA didn't expose my family to toxic exhaust fumes. Nothing against KIA by the way.

Also I buy my cars and keep them for years. I want a reliable long lasting vehicle that is low maintenance. I don't like car payments and I don't particularly like the car buying process. This explorer was supposed to last my family a long time.

I appreciate your response so please don't take this the wrong way but, if your 2011 was so excellent, why did you get rid of it?

 

[gypsy321]

Something else I have noticed after the TSB "fix". The car now defaults to recirculate mode on the AC every time the car is turned off and back on as well as every time you adjust the AC. So I have to remind my wife to turn it off every time she gets in the car. I assume this is the opposite of what is supposed to happen as the fresh air should be on all the time.

Needless to say I am calling the dealer again in the morning.

Just to vent. I can say with 100% certainty after all of this Ford will never get mine or my families business ever again. As a life long mustang fan, I was very close to pulling the trigger on a new mustang too. Never again. This is just something you should not have to deal with in the year 2015. Very unacceptable and stressful to have to deal with this on a brand new car! My neighbors were looking at an Explorer too. Guess what not after I took him for a drive in the smell machine, they are now looking at Toyota. They have two twin daughters and would prefer not to poison them before their 3rd birthday. Wake up Ford people and their families are driving around in these things! In no way should I have to worry about my families safety from hazardous gases in my car. If I didn't think I could get significantly more for a lemon law than a trade in I would trade this thing in tomorrow and be done with this crap.

Nixhex, I to have the 2015 EX LTD and experiencing the same issues ; unfortunately in Canada we have no such thing as lemon laws as Corporations rule politicians(votes over safety). I don't know if you are aware that their is a class action suit going forward in Florida about this smell issue and they are looking for more and any participants with the smell issue to join in the class action suit. The thread for this info is somewhere close to . I agree 100% with all you have said and yet have been chastised in this forum for speaking badly about Ford, some say to drive with your window down............acceptable for a model T..............not acceptable for a 2015 model vehicle from one of the largest auto makers in the world.
Good Luck
Gypsy

 

[gypsy321]

From post 1432;

http://www.classaction.org/explorer-exhaust-leaks

Peter

Nixhex ; here is the info for class action law suit against Ford for smell issues

 

[peterk9]

.....I appreciate your response so please don't take this the wrong way but, if your 2011 was so excellent, why did you get rid of it?

No problem. I had it on a 4 year lease and the dealer really wanted it back after 3 years when it had about 11,200 miles on it. They had a buyer for it and offered me a deal on a 2014 Lincoln MKT that was in the showroom. They paid off the last year on the lease, bought it out from Ford and sold it. I took the MKT for 3 years so now I'll be in the market around the time the 2017's are out and orders being taken for a 2018. With the expiration of the Explorer's 4 year lease I would have been looking at a 2015 which is pretty well the same as the 2011. That was something I didn't want.

Peter

 

[nixhex]

Nixhex ; here is the info for class action law suit against Ford for smell issues

Thanks for the info.

 

[nixhex]

I got the detector in yesterday but didn't have a chance to test the car yet. I will try to do it tonight. I think I ordered the wrong one though as it only measures 30-999 ppm. So it appears I need a $$$ one as linked to above to detect really low levels. But regardless I will try it out tonight and see if it gets above 30 at least. The idea was to test in another car as well without the smell and see how the levels compare.

The car goes back to the shop tomorrow for another round of toxic smell relief troubleshooting. I don't think they even test drove the car to smell it themselves the first time, they just did the TSB based on my description of the problem.

I will say one thing at this point with 12000 miles on it the smell is still there but is about half what it was for the first 6000 miles or so and I noticed this before and after the TSB. The TSB seemed to have minimal effect.

 

[4Raven]

2016 Model

So has anyone experienced our problem with the new 2016 model?

 

[peterk9]

So has anyone experienced our problem with the new 2016 model?

No one has one yet. They just started production this month.

Peter

 

[nixhex]

Took it for a quick 15 min test last night and as expected my detector which only measures 30-99ppm was showing 0. So I need to get a better detector which starts at 0. I would also like to find some other way to run an air quality test in the vehicle for all sorts of chemicals.

I dropped it back off at the dealership this morning for round 2. Thankfully I was assigned a very helpful and understanding service rep. He had one of the head mechanics ride with me. The mechanic immediately smelled it during hard acceleration and said it was not normal. Granted it is now probably about half as bad as it was 6000 miles ago. He also said it wasn't a normal "exhaust" gas smell and was surprised he still smelled it after the TSB. He said he has done the TSB before himself and that it should seal that whole area up. He mentioned that catalytic converter and wondered if something was being burnt off under high temps at high rpms. Regardless since the TSB has been done he said the next steps are to take the back apart again and verify the TSB was done correctly and to call Ford engineering to seek advice on how to proceed. He said they had to contact engineering at this point to see if they had a better solution vs just trying to replace things like the exhaust, converter... etc and possibly making things worse.

I told him that I was worried that exhaust gases were getting in the car even when I didn't smell anything. He said since the car is not air tight, if it was something like the converter making the smell, that smell could still get in the cabin somehow and it wouldn't necessarily be exhaust gases being sucked in from the rear venting system fixed in the TSB.

FYI I also asked the mechanic about that "burn in oil" smell that I was told about when this first started happening. He basically said in a politically correct way that it was BS.

I will report back with the results.

 

[bburzycki]

I have definitely heard of the issue of improper sealing post TSB - or not enough sealant used.

Then the unit being redone and the issue being reduced again..

I also experienced that in mine the smell was gone for a few weeks post TSB - but now has returned to higher levels..

FYI - we should not need to be troubleshooting this - Ford needs to do this for us or read this post...

Took it for a quick 15 min test last night and as expected my detector which only measures 30-99ppm was showing 0. So I need to get a better detector which starts at 0. I would also like to find some other way to run an air quality test in the vehicle for all sorts of chemicals.

I dropped it back off at the dealership this morning for round 2. Thankfully I was assigned a very helpful and understanding service rep. He had one of the head mechanics ride with me. The mechanic immediately smelled it during hard acceleration and said it was not normal. Granted it is now probably about half as bad as it was 6000 miles ago. He also said it wasn't a normal "exhaust" gas smell and was surprised he still smelled it after the TSB. He said he has done the TSB before himself and that it should seal that whole area up. He mentioned that catalytic converter and wondered if something was being burnt off under high temps at high rpms. Regardless since the TSB has been done he said the next steps are to take the back apart again and verify the TSB was done correctly and to call Ford engineering to seek advice on how to proceed. He said they had to contact engineering at this point to see if they had a better solution vs just trying to replace things like the exhaust, converter... etc and possibly making things worse.

I told him that I was worried that exhaust gases were getting in the car even when I didn't smell anything. He said since the car is not air tight, if it was something like the converter making the smell, that smell could still get in the cabin somehow and it wouldn't necessarily be exhaust gases being sucked in from the rear venting system fixed in the TSB.

FYI I also asked the mechanic about that "burn in oil" smell that I was told about when this first started happening. He basically said in a politically correct way that it was BS.

I will report back with the results.

 

[bruinsfan]

This is a pretty informative site about the TSB :

http://vitalysmobileautodiagnostics.com/12573/exhaust-odor-in-the-vehicle-2011-2015-ford-explorer

 

[ExCrystal]

I noticed the bad/burnt smell when accelerating hard, too. I usually notice it when I have the A/C on (both normal and MAX) and on both fresh and recycled air.

I've noticed it a few times, but the smell goes away after some time.

I have a '15 Limited 4WD that was a Manager's demo car for ~3K miles.

Any ideas? I just got my car back from being rear-ended. While Ford's body shop scratched up and damaged my 3rd row seat while repairing the lift-gate (photo proof before and after repairs), I am getting impatient by consistently going back to the dealer to repair things. Before the accident, a water leak was repaired, both outside pillar body moldings adjacent to the windshield were broken and replaced, and the left rear passenger window weather stripping was falling off the window. All this 2 weeks into owning it, and now the interior/3rd row damage done by Ford. Never have I had so many problems within one period with one car, nor have I ever owned a Ford.

I'm not really sure if it is worth it at this point, but if the "smell" can really do harm to people and myself, then I will proceed.