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Big White - Ford Racing Powerdyne Installation Thread

MuscleJunkie

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I just want to thank everyone who has taken an interest in this project for the past 7 years and even bigger thanks to all of those who had offered advice, help, words of encouragement and opportunities to purchase rare parts that have brought this dream to a reality.

Thank You!!!!!
 


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fastpakr

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What are you guys using to tune things? That's still a world I'm unfamiliar with. Short term I need to disable EGR, but eventually I'll need some other things like shutting down the 4R70W functions.
 




Blown

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I don't want to step on this thread, but I use a Tweecer. There is help and support but for DIY, you got to be pretty good, already knowing some tuning and computers. Moates is another and may still have DIY kit you can build the electronics to attach and tune. SCT is more user friendly and likely most often used with the help of an experienced tuner. I think SCT has the most support and tuners to help available.

Tuning can get deep quick, for example our Explorers run 64 psi fuel pumps, much higher than what the injectors specifications detail. The injector parameters must reflect that change in pressure in the tune, must be calculated and then fine tuned by datalogging what is actually happening with air fuel ratio. Running injectors that put out 43lbs at 39psi must be tuned to what they put out at 64psi in our X's.
 




donalds

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Tuning can get deep quick, for example our Explorers run 64 psi fuel pumps, much higher than what the injectors specifications detail. The injector parameters must reflect that change in pressure in the tune, must be calculated and then fine tuned by datalogging what is actually happening with air fuel ratio. Running injectors that put out 43lbs at 39psi must be tuned to what they put out at 64psi in our X's
Your telling me lmao
 




MuscleJunkie

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B5F137C5-0A38-4CB6-992A-18405EA0DCE5.jpeg

2nd Set of Saleen Wheels for Big White Ford Explorer (Stay tuned for their transformation)

So as many of you know I have the original set of wheels from the Saleen XP8 Ford Explorer brochure truck (98-0022) currently installed in Big White. Those wheels are the original Speedline Magnesium Corse rims that Saleen used on many of the early XP8s and many Saleen Mustangs of the era as well.

I wanted to have an extra set of wheels so when the magnesium ones were ready for refreshing I had a different set to install. I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to purchase the original set of Saleen wheels from XP8 00-0023 ( Facebook ) which is also the truck where my hood and wing came from.

These rims are not the Speedline magnesium rims but the later (and fairly rare) Saleen “Magnesium-Style” rims that were produced in alloy instead of Magnesium. They have “Saleen” cast into the lip next to the valve stem.

Stay tuned for the amazing transformation of these rare Saleen rims. I’m considering having them coated with the same Pearl White of Big White Ford Explorer or perhaps something different.

If somebody has any really cool and unique ideas along with perhaps a photoshop of how that could look, I would love to see it.
 




MuscleJunkie

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So some very early dyno and tuning results. Still a couple things to have answered and a few things to work out. So the dyno sheet below was done with the 1st GM IAT sensor that Zachow3 included with the Powerdyne kit. The tuner said the IAT was not functioning properly and it was ready perhaps 100 degrees of temperature higher than reality.

So my understanding a stock 5.0 Explorer dynos at (these figures are from the torque monster site of a 98 5.0 Explorer 4x4 ) 157.7 rwhp and 203 rwtq. Not sure what the figures on a stock AWD are but perhaps a bit less. Ford claims 215 crank horsepower and 280 crank torque on the stock Ford Explorer 5.0 V8 (98-01) So these figures would be in line for an approximate 27% driveline power loss to the 4x4 system if true

Another data point for consideration. Saleen claimed that their Saleen XP8 Ford Explorer with the Powerdyne Supercharger achieved 288 Crank Horsepower and 333 Crank Torque

My truck is a 2000 Ford Explorer 5.0 with AWD with 90mm MAF, large cone air filter, custom stainless tubing for a Ford Motorsport SVO Powerdyne Supercharger (with upgraded pulley - not sure of boost level achieved yet), 75mm TB, 80mm intake elbow, 1” intake spacer, 56lb Motorcraft GT500 injectors, 255 lph in tank fuel pump, OBX headers, Saleen XP8 Borla Exhaust and Ford Contour Electric Fan.

My run with the faulty IAT came out to 251.24 rwhp and 306.87 rwtq. Using the same 27% figure above (might be more for AWD versus 4x4??) this come out to about 345 crank horsepower and 420 crank torque. The questions I still await answers for are what boost did it achieve and what were the A/Fs?? Hope to have info soon.

Again this was with the faulty General Motors IAT that was reading much higher temperatures than reality. I’m not sure if the calculations I’m getting are based in reality or not so hopefully somebody who has much more knowledge and experience can chime in on this to let me know if I overestimated or underestimated based on the fact my truck is AWD and the runs were done on a AWD dyno.

Another run was done with the IAT completely disconnected. I do not have the sheet for that but I was told the figures are:: 278.8 rwhp and 352 rwtq. Using the approx 27% figure this seems to come out to approximately 382 crank horsepower and 482 crank torque.

Again, these Dyno runs were done on a AWD dyno

Currently installing a Ford lightning IAT sensor and plan to check it again at the dyno but expect numbers will between the two dyno runs.

Again a lot of this information is very early and I’ll be clarifying more and checking further for more refined details of what was really achieved so far with this build. I haven’t had an opportunity to speak directly to the tuner so some of this information outside of the dyno sheet is coming to me in pieces at this point.

F9674196-717E-4641-9ABF-8C5BA8071338.jpeg
 




CDW6212R

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That's decent information, the limited dyno figures. The stock AWD 302 should test close to 200rwhp, that 157.7 number is BS. If one showed that, it had terrible plugs and fuel and blow-by etc.

The EE supercharger kit made about a 270rwhp truck as I recall, those were all 302 AWD too. I'd say that 278.8rwhp test result with no IAT sensor sound reasonable for the combination. That should agree with a mild boost level and no intercooler or meth injection etc. The IAT running very hot would retard the timing, thus the power also.
 




MuscleJunkie

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Thanks Don. I obtained the stock baseline Dyno numbers of a 4x4 5.0 Explorer from the torque monster headers guy’s page


I’ll try searching through the forum to see if there are any other baseline the numbers to post. I’m just trying to figure out a reasonable percentage of driveline loss for the various scenarios 4x2 vs 4x4 versus AWD. Seem to remember reading that AWD vehicles dyno the smallest amount due to the largest amount of driveline loss from the AWD transfer case and automatic transmission.

If I remember correctly a 25% to 30% loss is what many posts speak about but I haven’t been able to find much that is definitive When it comes to these trucks.
 




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The real issue there is virtually nobody has had their AWD 302 Explorer on a dyno. You will find posts suggesting test results, but basically no graphs or direct claims from owners. The 302 platform is one of the most limited ever made, there's so little that can be done easily, so few people go far enough to do any dyno testing.

So we basically accept the 210hp Ford rating(rwhp), and make an assumption of the actual level for a 10 year old etc, high mileage vehicle. The 2WD with no TC will be the best chance to find results from, and should be close to that 210hp number.

The Explorer Express kit was wanted a lot in the early 2000's, for $3500 it got plenty of demand. Those trucks would be the best chance to find that someone tested their truck before installing the EE kit. But those would be very old posts now, tons of forum changes have lost a lot of stuff from 2003 etc. Those are likely where any posts referencing dyno figures come from.

The few dyno results we do see of modified 302 based Explorers, they tend to come in around that 25% level(lower than would be expected). So a 300hp result suggests it might be near 400hp in a Mustang etc, a manual transmission and no AWD, full sized dual exhaust etc.
 








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At most/max, I am thinking approximately 320HP and 400FTLBS at the crank with my pretty much stock 306 and 8lbs of boost. I am getting decent mileage when I keep out of boost and it out-pulls most rigs up into the mountains.

A high IAT reading would result in the EECV pulling timing and adding fuel..............................not peak performance. You will have it dialed-in soon!

Good Luck!
 




MuscleJunkie

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Hi everyone. So my understanding is the 98 through 01 - 5.0 in the explorer was rated at 215HP at the crank and 288ftlb torque at the crank. I noticed Don said above 210 rear wheel horsepower yet I’ve always thought figures from Ford were stated as crank horsepower and not RWHP. Is this a correct understanding?

I’ve seen several posts here in the archives talking about Dyno results - but most of them seem to be on two wheel dynos of various drivetrains. 4x2, 4x4 or AWD with auto trannys with the latter two having the 4 x 4 disconnected or the driveshaft disconnected in the front. Many of those posts reference a figure that is 20 to 30% below the stated Ford (what I assume to be) crank horsepower/torque stock figures. These dyno figures always seem to be around 150.5 to 172 rear wheel horsepower. Have there been any other bone stock 5.0 Explorer dyno sheets that show something significantly higher? I agree with Don that there doesn’t seem to be anything from an all AWD dyno on a AWD bone stock 2nd Gen Explorer. The only thing I seem to see is referencing to there being a significantly higher drive train loss on the all wheel drive vehicles. I’d love to know credibly what that figure actually is so I can know what I actually was able to gain for this build since I was never able to do a bone stock Dyno.
 




Turdle

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The way I understand it is HP ratings ever since 1972 were brake hp, which means hp at the brakes.

I might be wrong.

However, a cool thought for the day is the fact our brakes make more HP than our engines do.
 




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Ditto. Hunt the Mustang dyno ratings and many of the those posts will say rear wheel hp. So the Fox 302 Mustangs were all 225rwhp, and the 93-95 Cobra 302's were 240hp, rwhp. The 03/04 Cobra's said 380hp or so, and real testing showed 360ish.

The AWD TC eats power of course, the 4WD TC's will be slightly lower losses, but more than 2WD. Pulling the front driveshaft from an AWD or 4WD won't make any extra power, so those tested that way should be very close to accurate.
 




fastpakr

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Brake horsepower doesn't mean at the physical brake by the wheel. It's a system of measuring useful power at the flywheel.
 




MuscleJunkie

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Hi everyone. So my understanding is the 98 through 01 - 5.0 in the explorer was rated at 215HP at the crank and 288ftlb torque at the crank. I noticed Don said above 210 rear wheel horsepower yet I’ve always thought figures from Ford were stated as crank horsepower and not RWHP. Is this a correct understanding?

I’ve seen several posts here in the archives talking about Dyno results - but most of them seem to be on two wheel dynos of various drivetrains. 4x2, 4x4 or AWD with auto trannys with the latter two having the 4 x 4 disconnected or the driveshaft disconnected in the front. Many of those posts reference a figure that is 20 to 30% below the stated Ford (what I assume to be) crank horsepower/torque stock figures. These dyno figures always seem to be around 150.5 to 172 rear wheel horsepower. Have there been any other bone stock 5.0 Explorer dyno sheets that show something significantly higher? I agree with Don that there doesn’t seem to be anything from an all AWD dyno on a AWD bone stock 2nd Gen Explorer. The only thing I seem to see is referencing to there being a significantly higher drive train loss on the all wheel drive vehicles. I’d love to know credibly what that figure actually is so I can know what I actually was able to gain for this build since I was never able to do a bone stock Dyno.
Here are a few old post links talking about stock dyno results for anyone that cares



Explorer Express Dyno


 




CDW6212R

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Here are a few old post links talking about stock dyno results for anyone that cares



Explorer Express Dyno


That first linked thread is for a 302 Ranger, he called it a "It was a 2X Exploder.... Now a part time 4X ranger." It says 100k miles engine, a baseline run, safe to bet it was virtually untouched for the swap, and could have had many stock original parts(plus/wires/O2's). I take that from the limited and poor wording, vocabulary, and lack of detailed results or details about the engine or swap.

The other threads are all about SOHC V6's, most that made 180rwhp or more, and I recall Al getting very close to 200rwhp.


The flywheel estimates are useless, please everyone, stop posting those or guessing at those. Only wheel hp matters, not what the engine makes but doesn't reach the wheels. It doesn't matter if the engine has 300flywheel hp, but just 210 reaches the wheels in a chassis dyno test. Today's cars are still rated in wheel hp, none are flywheel hp. Actual dyno tests alway come in a little under the ratings, OEM cheats by leaving off the accessory belts, and tests them in 2WD versions instead of AWD etc.

I don't accept that the 302 Explorer is a 160rwhp truck in AWD form, unless it's far out of tune. Tons of examples now need new plugs and wires, O2 sensors etc. But nobody should baseline an engine in poor condition, and post those mediocre figures online.

The actual computer tune should also be adjusted prior to any baseline testing, and nobody does that either. I'll get to my 98 eventually, and it has 225k miles now(trans is hurt(undriven now)). I will have the PCM re-tuned before every dyno test, including the first baseline test. I too want to know what a decent exhaust is worth. But I have no intention of buying, or installing 1.5" headers, just one muffler, or tail pipe, or use any section of an OEM cat pipe.

So in my opinion, the mild superchargers(6-8psi or so) that have been installed on the 302 Explorers, in AWD, should make close to 250rwhp, and likely under 275rwhp. That's with a good state of tune engine, and the PCM adjusted for A/F ratio etc.
 




CDW6212R

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Here are a few old post links talking about stock dyno results for anyone that cares



Explorer Express Dyno


That first linked thread is for a 302 Ranger, he called it a "It was a 2X Exploder.... Now a part time 4X ranger." It says 100k miles engine, a baseline run, safe to bet it was virtually untouched for the swap, and could have had many stock original parts(plus/wires/O2's). I take that from the limited and poor wording, vocabulary, and lack of detailed results or details about the engine or swap.

The other threads are all about SOHC V6's, most that made 180rwhp or more, and I recall Al getting very close to 200rwhp.


The flywheel estimates are useless, please everyone, stop posting those or guessing at those. Only wheel hp matters, not what the engine makes but doesn't reach the wheels. It doesn't matter if the engine has 300flywheel hp, but just 210 reaches the wheels in a chassis dyno test. Today's cars are still rated in wheel hp, none are flywheel hp. Actual dyno test always come in a little under the ratings, OEM cheats by leaving off the accessory belts, tests them in 2WD versions instead of AWD etc.

I don't accept that the 302 Explorer is a 160rwhp truck in AWD form, unless it's far out of tune. Tons of examples now need new plugs and wires, O2 sensors etc. But nobody should baseline an engine in poor condition, and post those mediocre figures online.

The actual computer tune should also be adjusted prior to any baseline testing, and nobody does that either. I'll get to my 98 eventually, and it has 225k miles now(trans is hurt(undriven now)). I will have the PCM re-tuned before every dyno test, including the first baseline test. I too want to know what a decent exhaust is worth. But I have no intention of buying, or installing 1.5" headers, just one muffler, or tail pipe, or use any section of an OEM cat pipe.

So in my opinion, the mild superchargers(6-8psi or so) that have been installed on the 302 Explorers, in AWD, should make at least 250rwhp, and likely under 275rwhp. That's with a good state of tune engine, and the PCM adjusted for A/F ratio etc.
 




MuscleJunkie

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Don thank you for the info. It's always an education learning experience reading some of the posts here.

So my initial figures with a broken IAT of 251.24 rwhp and 306.87 rwtq (and 278.9 rwhp and 352 rwtq with the IAT disconnected) seem to be inline with what you stated. I'll be interested to know what I'll see the results with the correctly functioning Ford Lightning IAT.

Should be finding out what the actual boost I'm seeing sometime in the next couple days. I'll report back.
 


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MuscleJunkie

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At most/max, I am thinking approximately 320HP and 400FTLBS at the crank with my pretty much stock 306 and 8lbs of boost. I am getting decent mileage when I keep out of boost and it out-pulls most rigs up into the mountains.

A high IAT reading would result in the EECV pulling timing and adding fuel..............................not peak performance. You will have it dialed-in soon!

Good Luck!
What I hear third hand from the tuner is the GM IAT I had when they tested was incorrectly reading ultra high temps when they did the 251 RWHP test. They disconnected and saw a higher RWHP reading. Hopefully a correctly functioning IAT will have a better result.
 




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