Didn't like it at first, but..

[TinwoodyII]

So, has anyone seen a picture of the motor--is it sideways, or front to back? Most FWD's have a sideways engine even with an AWD option (although my 76 VW Dasher/Audi Fox was front to back, as was the original Toronado, and FWD El Dorado). I believe that Ford's Escape, Flex, Edge and Taurus X are all sideways mounts.

 

[NHarris]

So, has anyone seen a picture of the motor--is it sideways, or front to back? Most FWD's have a sideways engine even with an AWD option (although my 76 VW Dasher/Audi Fox was front to back, as was the original Toronado, and FWD El Dorado). I believe that Ford's Escape, Flex, Edge and Taurus X are all sideways mounts.

I would say its sideways. It doesn't look like there's what they call "the hump" in the interior and to hood looks to small to support and engine front to back. I can't guarantee what I just said is 100% right, but thats my 2 cents.

 

[manaen]

If it's front wheel drive it's sideways otherwise there would be none of the gains from doing front wheel drive.

I love the new home page. The big quote says "Redefining what it means to be an SUV"

Yeah they redefined it, and now SUV means Minivan geesh...
I just don't get it so now if you want something new that actually is useful offroad and can tow there are no options in a mid size vehicle. Maybe they will have a new mid size super crew truck in the works. They made all those changes reduced the tow rating by over 2000lbs, made it FWD, and I bet it will only get 2 to 4 MPG better then the older model.

I am feeling a bit jaded right now, like I just lost an old friend.... Oh well I suppose this should make all the soccer moms and city folks happy now they can all feel like they are driving a real SUV while they cruse around on the highways.

 

[FLOffroad]

It really is true though, a lot of people in the SUV market nowadays want minivan, but don't want a "minivan"
I agree about them really redefining SUV, not to mention, other companies are and probably will continue to redefine "SUV." I was thinking about that yesterday, maybe we should actually redefine SUV as to not confuse the new ones with old SUVs, or dishonor the old SUVs by grouping the new ones with them. We can just refer to the old SUVs as "Sport Utilities." So, the new "SUV" will have to stand for something that tells what or who the vehicles are for.

Here's what came to mind:
-Suburban upland vehicle
-Spacious urban vehicle

Feel free to contribute.

 

[willied]

If it's front wheel drive it's sideways otherwise there would be none of the gains from doing front wheel drive.

I love the new home page. The big quote says "Redefining what it means to be an SUV"

Yeah they redefined it, and now SUV means Minivan geesh...
I just don't get it so now if you want something new that actually is useful offroad and can tow there are no options in a mid size vehicle. Maybe they will have a new mid size super crew truck in the works. They made all those changes reduced the tow rating by over 2000lbs, made it FWD, and I bet it will only get 2 to 4 MPG better then the older model.

I am feeling a bit jaded right now, like I just lost an old friend.... Oh well I suppose this should make all the soccer moms and city folks happy now they can all feel like they are driving a real SUV while they cruse around on the highways.

A 4 mpg improvement would be great. I don't know any minivans that can tow 5,000 pounds or has more off road capability than the new Explorer. Do you tow 7,000 pounds with your Explorer? I don't think very many people tow that much with the Explorer.

 

[NHarris]

willied...true on that. I'd love my X to get 18mpg. No van i know of can tow 5k lbs, or off-road capable. My X can't tow more than 6k lbs
Most of use here in the explorer forum, wanted the explorer to keep to its roots. I think ford could have done that. Look at the jeep grand cherokee. Its kept to its roots. I agree most people want a minivan without buying a van. The guys that have to drive it for a family car, want it because they don't want a van. Old SUV- Sport Utililty Vehicle, New SUV- Sport Utility Van

 

[bender]

eh you can argue that jeep has not kept true to its roots with the new grand cherokee. through 04 they were solid axle front and rear. 05-10 they still had a solid rear axle. now they are full independent suspension. there are plenty of jeep die-hards that cannot come to terms with that.

but do keep in mind that Grand Cherokees were always unibody, so that shouldnt be the main arguement about the new explorer's capabilities, I think it more should be focused on the front-drive based platform.

 

[manaen]

A 4 mpg improvement would be great. I don't know any minivans that can tow 5,000 pounds or has more off road capability than the new Explorer. Do you tow 7,000 pounds with your Explorer? I don't think very many people tow that much with the Explorer.

I routinely tow over 5000, with all variables considered. This is just speculation but I am guessing that towing 5000 lbs with the 2011 will greatly reduce its usefull life versus the previous models.

If 4mpg is worth loosing all that functionality then great maybe there are more people that are like you and do not need to tow or do any serious offroad treks.

But in my mind let me run through a basic scenario or two.

Let's say your towing a 4300lb boat and your sitting on the ramp and all the weight is on the back wheels. Do you think your going to get your boat out of the water on a slippy wet surface?

What if your towing a 3800lb popup with an additional 1000lbs of gear and people. With 6 passengers 1k is conservative unless they are all tiny people. Anyway you are backing your camper into the spot which is on a grassy incline. You need to cut the wheels to turn the camper and hit the gas however since your drive wheels are your steering wheels you will more then likely spin out and slide to the side being pushed by the camper.

Oh wait you say, "I bought the 4wd version"... hmmm well you can kiss that 4mpg goodbye

Both these scenarios are highly likely situations when towing.


Hey I am not trying to poo poo the project, and I am a Ford Fan since I have been driving. I have lived through the good and bad with Ford. I am also all for better gas mileage. However this move from a solid design to what it has become is more about the bottom line numbers then fuel mileage. They already have an Edge, Escape, and a Flex they all have the same purpose as the new explorer. Can't we just have one vehicle that is actually be as rugged as it tries to portray itself to the public. I actually applaud Toyota for bringing the FJ Cruiser to market. It had a serious 4wd system and was as functional as it's looks claimed it was. Sure it has some major design flaws but you also see the darn things everywhere.

Anyway it's design is finished and there is really nothing anyone can do to change it. I hope Ford sells a lot of them then maybe they will have the money to develop and market something worthy to those who really like to use their vehicles in a very practical way.

 

[manaen]

willied...true on that. I'd love my X to get 18mpg.

mine gets 19mpg right now when not towing, and before they started selling this crap gas I would routinely get 21mpg

 

[willied]

mine gets 19mpg right now when not towing, and before they started selling this crap gas I would routinely get 21mpg

Maybe he meant in the city...

I'm not going to lie, I would love to see the new Explorer be a tough, body on frame, RWD, off road machine, but that would be much harder to sell to the majority of people who just want an SUV-ish vehicle with the efficiency and handling of a car. Are people crazy for wanting that? Probably, but I know my mom would never want a van but loves her Expedition, even if it's not used normally to tow or go off road.

I do tow, but not over 5000 pounds. The most I've towed was probably 3,500 pounds and my Explorer felt great towing it.

If you think about it Ford could have pulled this car off body on frame and RWD while still getting better fuel economy. The engines they were offering in the 4th gen were relatively ancient (especially the 4.0). With one of the new V6 engines in the 4th gen I could see it getting 17/23 or maybe even a little more if they used some lighter materials throughout the vehicle. I think one of the biggest problems with the 4th gen is that the interior is pretty crappy quality compared to Ford's new interiors.

I hope this Explorer turns out to be better than what we think it will be.

And I would love for them to come out with a new Bronco that is true to it's roots. That would be awesome.

 

[AMMO_HOOAH]

Looks like a damn FJ and I hate those. The explorer is officially dead to me lol.

 

[NHarris]

Maybe he meant in the city...

I'm not going to lie, I would love to see the new Explorer be a tough, body on frame, RWD, off road machine, but that would be much harder to sell to the majority of people who just want an SUV-ish vehicle with the efficiency and handling of a car. Are people crazy for wanting that? Probably, but I know my mom would never want a van but loves her Expedition, even if it's not used normally to tow or go off road.

I do tow, but not over 5000 pounds. The most I've towed was probably 3,500 pounds and my Explorer felt great towing it.

If you think about it Ford could have pulled this car off body on frame and RWD while still getting better fuel economy. The engines they were offering in the 4th gen were relatively ancient (especially the 4.0). With one of the new V6 engines in the 4th gen I could see it getting 17/23 or maybe even a little more if they used some lighter materials throughout the vehicle. I think one of the biggest problems with the 4th gen is that the interior is pretty crappy quality compared to Ford's new interiors.

I hope this Explorer turns out to be better than what we think it will be.

And I would love for them to come out with a new Bronco that is true to it's roots. That would be awesome.

With the gas mileage, I have a different generation explorer from him. I was stating my gas mileage.
I think the cars are under-rated because mine does a hell-of-alot better than what the EPA says.
True on the new V6 engines. I think that those in a 4th gen would do good too. What we wanted and what they were aiming for a 2 different things.
-I think the explorer is exiting the off-road market, for a few reasons. --First, there's got to be some kind of a replacement. Whether its a bronco, truck, or whatever, there's got to be some SUV that will replace it.
-Two, not many people will ever take this explorer off-road. But yet...they want the off-road capability
-Three, even though I'm a guy driving an explorer, like others, many people have their mind sent on the explorer, that its a Soccer Mom's car, etc.
I think that the explorer like any other car, can be a soccer mom's car.
A Ford F150 can be a soccer mom's car. But it is true that the explorer is marketed towards families. For example, why does it have 3rd row seats...for families. And it is true that a fair number of ladies do drive explorers, and that a lot of those ladies use it for family use.
So thats where ford marketed the new explorer. Its now officially gone from the Tahoe/Trailblazer as competition to the Chevrolet Traverse (family unibody SUV that has little to no off-road useage)
And with the interior stuff, my interior on my 05 is alright. Besides the lumbar on it just broke, I think my interior is alright and it does the job.
I apologize for the long message.

 

[NHarris]

Looks like a damn FJ and I hate those. The explorer is officially dead to me lol.

Looks and how it actually is in person is generally two different things. I thought that in 2002 the explorer was dead, but I'm driving an 05. I used complain about how much explorers suck after 2001, and then I end up driving one.

 

[manaen]

well when we start to see reviews come in it will be interesting.

maybe I demand too much from my vehicles....

If you think about it Ford could have pulled this car off body on frame and RWD while still getting better fuel economy.

Exactly... they just decided that profit is more important then design.

-I think the explorer is exiting the off-road market, for a few reasons. --First, there's got to be some kind of a replacement. Whether its a bronco, truck, or whatever, there's got to be some SUV that will replace it.

Dear God I hope your right, for years I have been waiting for the right solution. In fact Ford came close, it was a Ranger sold in foreign markets that had full 4 doors 5 foot bed and a turbo diesel that produced plenty of torque to tow with and still got 40MPG. Now why can't they sell that stuff here?

 

[Joe Dirt]

Exactly... they just decided that profit is more important then design.

Well yeah- they're a high volume producer, not Bentley.

 

[FLOffroad]

I used to get 19-20mpg combined (probably 70% city, 20% highway, 10% offroad) with stock michelins, but I switched to Grabber AT2s, now I get around 17-18.

And a word on diesels - a fair amount of the reason why we don't see as many small diesel SUVs and trucks is because of environmental restrictions (which, for a some part, are actually more restrictive in the US than other places). That, and most Americans don't want to pay for diesel.

 

[manaen]

Well yeah- they're a high volume producer, not Bentley.

yeah, but case in point they hit a home run with the new F150 frame design and still made plenty of money. They can do both if customers like myself continue to be disappointed by the design how profitable will it ultimately be to short cut the design.

That, and most Americans don't want to pay for diesel.

and yet those are the same people that pay 5k more for a stupid battery car that gets less fuel mileage then a comparable diesel powered car.

 

[NHarris]

yeah, but case in point they hit a home run with the new F150 frame design and still made plenty of money. They can do both if customers like myself continue to be disappointed by the design how profitable will it ultimately be to short cut the design.

-The new F150 has seen a sales decline too. People don't like the gas-guzzlers. The F150 still has been successful but not as successful as it was back in 2004/2005.
-What's wrong with the design? True I would like a full-frame, but the unibody is just fine. If they can figure out how to make a unibody truck...they will, but will it sell? Can't answer that. As long as its like any other truck it will sell; if it can tow, haul a lot (in the bed), and is what truck buyers want, then it will sell.
And how many people buying the new X will really car if its unibody or truck frame? Not many.
F150 Sales:
2004- 939,511
2005- 901,463
2006- 796,039
2007- 690,589
2008- 515,513
2009- 413,625

 

[damarble]

Hmm, now that there are clear pics out, it doesn't look half bad. It could prove to be popular. Since it is basically aimed at on-road use only, I hope the engines deliver the power numbers that have been floated around, it would make it pretty fun to drive and steal sales from cars hopefully.

 

[FLOffroad]

Those F150 sales # are valid if anyone else was wondering, when compared to national auto sales, F150 (given icecube's #s) went from 0.054% of the market in 2004 to 0.039% in 2009.
Not that I didn't trust you, I just like check numbers