Jakee's 4.0 SOHC Build up discussion and motivation thread

[Jakee]

another thread other then this one? Thats insanity

I won't start the thread, I promise. I'm sure the admins are mad at me because they'll have to buy a new hard drive to store this thread if it keeps going like it is.

 

[Afboy143]

I wastn't gonna post these but what the hey. It's ugly right now but you can see some of the changes being made to this y-pipe.

View attachment 40808

View attachment 40809

What made you go with this style Y pipe over the Y pipe that you had made out of the magnaflow peice? Also, which style magnaflow muffler are you running? How does it sound? What has the cat done as far as noise?

 

[Jakee]

Af - We wanted to start making everything and was shooting for more of a "Header extension" look. I'm running a regular 2-1/2" inlet/outlet magnaflow. The sound is deeper than the Gibson at idle, and maybe just a little loader. At wide open throttle, the sound is allot different than the Gibson, and much louder. I'm actually starting to like the sound.

As you know, these are just my opinions and I really need to get a sound clip for you to make your own decision. I believe the cat actually "cleans" up the sound, but I haven't ran without the cat on this combo, and don't plan to.

Also, I've drove the truck more and I'm a believer in headers. Take that how you want but I believe they compliment my set-up nicely!!! Also, I've really notice the way the engine revs now. It's much quicker!

 

[Xan]

Af - We wanted to start making everything and was shooting for more of a "Header extension" look. I'm running a regular 2-1/2" inlet/outlet magnaflow. The sound is deeper than the Gibson at idle, and maybe just a little loader. At wide open throttle, the sound is allot different than the Gibson, and much louder. I'm actually starting to like the sound.

As you know, these are just my opinions and I really need to get a sound clip for you to make your own decision. I believe the cat actually "cleans" up the sound, but I haven't ran without the cat on this combo, and don't plan to.

Also, I've drove the truck more and I'm a believer in headers. Take that how you want but I believe they compliment my set-up nicely!!! Also, I've really notice the way the engine revs now. It's much quicker!

I like my magnaflow too, it is maybe a little too loud for my taste im thinking about resonators now. Btw How could you not beleave in headers in the first place? they're on of the biggest mods to most engines

 

[Jakee]

Xan - The 4.0 SOHC is debatably for what headers does too it. Partly because of how good the stock manifolds really are. There are tons of people out there that don't think headers on the 4.0 SOHC is worth anything. They are mistaken.

 

[aldive]

There are tons of people out there that don't think headers on the 4.0 SOHC is worth anything. They are mistaken.

I really want to see your dyno numbers.

 

[Xan]

I really want to see your dyno numbers.

i think we all do

 

[UKExploder]

Now Jakee, headers or not headers is a big 'matter of opinion' statement till we all get a look at those dyno numbers.....

 

[Jakee]

Okay - but do you guys really know how to read a dyno chart? I mean, do you look at just the peak numbers like every other "know-it-all", or do you look at the entire RPM range? Something to think about...

We'll get some numbers soon.

 

[Xan]

Okay - but do you guys really know how to read a dyno chart? I mean, do you look at just the peak numbers like every other "know-it-all", or do you look at the entire RPM range? Something to think about...

We'll get some numbers soon.

Of course you look at the whole range

 

[CDW6212R]

I am one of those who really likes the stock SOHC manifolds, they are about the best which Ford has ever made. But I also know how bad manifolds from Ford can be, look at the awful 302 headers. Those should never have been made, a simple cast iron log manifold would have been better.

I do believe that your aftermarket headers are better than the stock manifolds, simply by Fords reputation I'd bet tons of money. But the question is really, are we talking about 10hp, or 3hp. How much is that worth, are those $500 headers, or $75 headers, tough questions?

My point is that those would be dead last on my list of possible modifications. Still, good work and I appreciate what that takes.

What made you go with this style Y pipe over the Y pipe that you had made out of the magnaflow peice? Also, which style magnaflow muffler are you running? How does it sound? What has the cat done as far as noise?

The transition on those pipes is far better than the cheap type of y-pipe, where the flow hits each other at a sharp angle. Regards,

 

[Jakee]

Yap - That's exactly why I saved the headers for one of the last "NA" mods. However, I was a little surprised on how they actually performed. I guess I told myself along time ago not to expect much. They perform a little better than I thought. Now, I'm not sure if I'm feeling this because of the headers, the headers and y-pipe, or the headers;y-pipe, and entire exhaust. Who knows, but I do feel that I have the right combination.

Anyone looking to make there own y-pipe, this is for you. I've tried a 2" y, a 2-1/2" Y, and now a 2-1/4" y. The 2-1/4" is just the right size for NA (My opinion). And 3" single is not too much for N/A. Again, the point is to try and hit right in the middle, and aimed for torque.

My last project car, I really made a big mistake. It was meant for a "Street rod" but I messed up on the cam I picked along with the headers and exhaust. The car hauled butt, but it didn't start working until around 3 grand. It sucked, it felt like a dog under 3, then it felt like all hell broke loose. So, I guess what I'm trying to say here, is I do have a little experience when it comes to this sort of thing.

 

[CDW6212R]

"...I really need to do a spell check before I post."

FYI, I sometimes use my email program to check a spelling. Open a new message, type in your odd word and a space, or spellcheck... easy. Regards,

 

[aldive]

"...I really need to do a spell check before I post."

FYI, I sometimes use my email program to check a spelling. Open a new message, type in your odd word and a space, or spellcheck... easy. Regards,

.. or get iespell and check righ here.

http://www.iespell.com/

 

[techieman33]

Or just start using firefox, getfirefox.com it's a much better browers, with lots of plugins to do whatever you want it to do, and it has a spell checker similar to microsoft word built in.

 

[Jakee]

I do the email thing too, but sometimes get in a hurry.

Well, I think I have the right combination of parts now to go ahead with the "tuning" of this the truck. I would REALLY like to close this thread out with two things;

1. A dyno chart that looks good thru-out the entire RPM range and that has good peak numbers (Over 200, and better yet, the goal I set of 210 RWHP)

2. A timeslip of 14 seconds or lower.

I'll then continue on with the turbo thread I created awhile back.

So, my plans next is to get a wideband from hensonperformance. Do a "remote tune"...then go to the dyno to see where I'm at.

Then, I need to hit the track to start getting use to the surface, and see if I can get in the 14's or lower. I think I can, If I can hook. Which leads me to the next mod......on and on and on and on...


I'll have some pics of the new exhaust pretty soon.

 

[Jakee]

A little info I stumbled across that talks about Power and Torque curves.

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_108648/article.html

 

[jah81592]

I am really a advocate of the headers. I believe that most on these forums don't understand how hard it is to get 10hp or higher. I have noticed on several Mustangs that shorty headers really don't produce much more than 6+ hp than stock manifolds. Ok so what, now lets look at the average hp and torque. I have noticed at 2800rpm that the difference is as high as 19lb.ft torque. You will feel this, you will feel a 8hp difference. This is fact. I had a set of headers on my truck and dynoed out a few hp less than another members on this board. So what! We are talking at high rpm. What I did look at is that this member had e-fan and similar bolt ons I had 3" cat back he had 2.5. I still was within 7hp of him. Now let me install a e-fan and I would've easily surpassed him in hp. My torque was wayyyyyy more at any given time, so this kills the 3" exhaust will kill the torque theory. So will I eat around 7-10hp to average more than 20lb.ft torque, yes.... I don't get where people on these forums think these headers don't work.They do. I am sorry to inform on this but dynos are only a fraction,small fraction of the pie. I have seen time and time again vehicle tuned on the dynoes put down astronomical #'s only to see the same vehicle get killed on the street or track. Why? Because they have a small window they are making power(up top) and the other vehicle is more linear making it pull everywhere,thus ensuring a faster more consistant vehicle(both vehicles noted were turbocharged silverado's,one had a thumper turbo (760hp 850lb ft,the other 60-1 turbo 560hp and 660lb ft-the first was a dyno queen). . Improper combinations! If you put headers on a stock vehicle will they produce the same amount of increase as on a modded vehicle,simply not. But there will be increases. My truck never went into the 9's (in the 1/8th) before the headers. I easily surpassed that once the installation was complete. Not to mention that the driveability and mid throttle acceleration was so much better. Dynoes cannot measure this! Also the misconception of 2.5 -pipe-3" outlet will kill torque. I disagree with this as well. My truck picked up on torque especially just off an idle after the installation of the y-pipe Jake built. Think of this too, not only do I have to get the vehicle moving but I also have to spin a turbo. When I am cruising and slight acceleration the turbo is just spinning doing nothing. So essentially the exhaust is having to work harder than just a n/a'd vehicle. I do believe the 2.25" primaries/3" collector y-pipe will be a better recommendation for mildly/slightly modded v-6's but when you get the complete bolt on's and such I would highly recommend the 2.5" primaries/3" collector. 3"primaries-3.5 y-pipe would be insanity, complete race system. I think anyone installing headers will be completely satisfied with thier decision. Just my .02! Thanks for listening to my rant. But this header debate topic is constantly being just that debated and primarily by people who haven't even installed the product. Was I skeptical with my purchase initially? Yes, would I do it over again? YES,YES AND YES!!!!!!,but please not I would take care of my complete intake,catback,pullies,e-fan,then I would do the headers. I believe then they will start to shine.:

 

[Afboy143]

With this said, I would just like to add that I do not think people on this forum give Jakee enough props on what he has done. I know personally, he has saved me time and money by doing the mods first then telling us how he did it. Everytime I have PM'ed him, he always replied promply and made sure I got everything right. Hell, he has one of the longest threads on this forum where he shares everything he has done on his truck and most of the time all I see is "I want to see dyno results". Well props to you Jakee for everything you've done for us. Its much appreciated.

My thoughts on the whole dyno thing:

I am a college kid who drives a Ford Explorer, not a race car driver who drives a drag-only mustang or Nascar. If I can feel the difference, Im happy. I dont need a dyno to tell me if Im happy with a mod or not. Of course this also is mixed with common sence. Will I feel a difference with a Tornado in my intake? If so, then it's probably in my head. But will I feel a difference with headers or a off-road Y pipe? Probably so. My thing is I cant justify the price of headers for our truck to the gain you get which is why I havent done it. For $400, Id make sure Im going forced induction first before I spend that on a mod.

For example, the Y pipe jakee helped me build, it feels the same under 3k RPMS, but above that it feels like it pulls much harder than before. This is seat of the pants talking. Do I need a dyno to tell me what I feel? No, I know what I feel and that's all that matters to me. I've been driving the same truck for 4 years now, Im pretty sure I know how my truck performs. I could understand you guys getting on him if he said "I just gained 20 hp!" but everything I see he simply states he feels the difference OR it was a well worth mod. Forums are meant for owners to share their ideas/thoughts with other owners. If you want hard evidence and such, pick up a FF&MM mustang or something to that effect. Most of the guys on here mod their trucks for fun, not for a career. Get off the guy about dynoing. He'll do it when he wants. In the mean time, why not throw him some congrats on sharing to the explorer community everything he has done. I know he's helped me a lot !

I am really a advocate of the headers. I believe that most on these forums don't understand how hard it is to get 10hp or higher. I have noticed on several Mustangs that shorty headers really don't produce much more than 6+ hp than stock manifolds. Ok so what, now lets look at the average hp and torque. I have noticed at 2800rpm that the difference is as high as 19lb.ft torque. You will feel this, you will feel a 8hp difference. This is fact. I had a set of headers on my truck and dynoed out a few hp less than another members on this board. So what! We are talking at high rpm. What I did look at is that this member had e-fan and similar bolt ons I had 3" cat back he had 2.5. I still was within 7hp of him. Now let me install a e-fan and I would've easily surpassed him in hp. My torque was wayyyyyy more at any given time, so this kills the 3" exhaust will kill the torque theory. So will I eat around 7-10hp to average more than 20lb.ft torque, yes.... I don't get where people on these forums think these headers don't work.They do. I am sorry to inform on this but dynos are only a fraction,small fraction of the pie. I have seen time and time again vehicle tuned on the dynoes put down astronomical #'s only to see the same vehicle get killed on the street or track. Why? Because they have a small window they are making power(up top) and the other vehicle is more linear making it pull everywhere,thus ensuring a faster more consistant vehicle(both vehicles noted were turbocharged silverado's,one had a thumper turbo (760hp 850lb ft,the other 60-1 turbo 560hp and 660lb ft-the first was a dyno queen). . Improper combinations! If you put headers on a stock vehicle will they produce the same amount of increase as on a modded vehicle,simply not. But there will be increases. My truck never went into the 9's (in the 1/8th) before the headers. I easily surpassed that once the installation was complete. Not to mention that the driveability and mid throttle acceleration was so much better. Dynoes cannot measure this! Also the misconception of 2.5 -pipe-3" outlet will kill torque. I disagree with this as well. My truck picked up on torque especially just off an idle after the installation of the y-pipe Jake built. Think of this too, not only do I have to get the vehicle moving but I also have to spin a turbo. When I am cruising and slight acceleration the turbo is just spinning doing nothing. So essentially the exhaust is having to work harder than just a n/a'd vehicle. I do believe the 2.25" primaries/3" collector y-pipe will be a better recommendation for mildly/slightly modded v-6's but when you get the complete bolt on's and such I would highly recommend the 2.5" primaries/3" collector. 3"primaries-3.5 y-pipe would be insanity, complete race system. I think anyone installing headers will be completely satisfied with thier decision. Just my .02! Thanks for listening to my rant. But this header debate topic is constantly being just that debated and primarily by people who haven't even installed the product. Was I skeptical with my purchase initially? Yes, would I do it over again? YES,YES AND YES!!!!!!,but please not I would take care of my complete intake,catback,pullies,e-fan,then I would do the headers. I believe then they will start to shine.:

 

[Jakee]

Well thanks guys. I'm glad to know I've helped someone out there. I know I haven't been completely correct when I do a mod, but I sure do tell everyone that it wasn't good. And If I don't say anything, and change the mod, or tweak it is some form or fashion, then you know it didn't work out like I planned.

Honestly, the people that want to see the dyno numbers will see the dyno numbers, I've learned not to pay that much attention to them.

However, for those of you that INSIST on knowing where I am, I can tell you my EDUCATED guess on where I am. I have a spot marked that's a quarter mile. Now, I need to remark it a couple more times to make sure it’s just right, but I do know how fast I'm going at the end of it. Somewhere in the neighborhood of x.. MPH. Now, if that tells you anything, then good, if you don't believe it then good, if you want to see proof, you will.

All this with a N/A v6'r. I'm pretty pleased with the results I've yielded this far. And I understand why some want hard proof of things. My opinion is because there is so many out there that BS others. Me, I don't consider myself one of those; I consider myself someone that loves the sport and is still learning. Just because I don't take advice every time doesn't mean I think I know it all, it simply means I have other ideas. Sometimes they work; sometimes I have to start all over.

The headers worked for me. And because I wanted EVERYTHING I could get, I got them. I would get them again, but maybe change to the Chrome plated version just for cost reasons. However, I can touch my headers after driving it. Try that with a chrome plated version....

James - I just about ready to be "Remote Tuned". I will contact you soon.