My new 347

[vroomzoomboom]

and the bottom right hole is flat. thats what did me in last year

 

[Dono]

Thanks Tim, its interesting. I would have thought even the aftermarket (GMB,etc.) would have been Ford factory catsting rebuilds, but thats apparently not the case.

Don, back to your thoughts on the springs you have for your heads, here is what my engine builder is using.
Valve Spring | PAC Racing Springs
The spec's are there, so it will hopefully help you.

Honestly, I would expect that FlowTech inductions is excellent, but with the continued calamity of errors with the motor rebuilding over and over an issue showed up. Its interesting that the cam card spec'd the lower pressure springs also. I'm betting that this spec had more to do with a spec that was recommended with the core, rather than FlowTech's determination.

I am interested in dropping my new motor on the engine dyno for many reasons:
1. The builder and I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that if a thrust goes again, its purely my issue. I think we have determined that already.
2. After the dyno, the builder will look at the oil, pull the pan off and look for issues, and pull a valve cover off to look for issues.
3. I will see in N/A form what timing makes best power at different rpm's. Peak torque RPM will also be interesting. This will be helpful in tuning.
4. The experience
To a lesser degree, the over all HP/Torque the motor makes at the flywheel N/A will be interesting

 

[Dono]

thread abandoned: New thread time so I can find information as I need it.
My New, New 347

 

[CDW6212R]

Thanks Tim, its interesting. I would have thought even the aftermarket (GMB,etc.) would have been Ford factory catsting rebuilds, but thats apparently not the case.

Don, back to your thoughts on the springs you have for your heads, here is what my engine builder is using.
Valve Spring | PAC Racing Springs
The spec's are there, so it will hopefully help you.

Honestly, I would expect that FlowTech inductions is excellent, but with the continued calamity of errors with the motor rebuilding over and over an issue showed up. Its interesting that the cam card spec'd the lower pressure springs also. I'm betting that this spec had more to do with a spec that was recommended with the core, rather than FlowTech's determination.

I am interested in dropping my new motor on the engine dyno for many reasons:
1. The builder and I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that if a thrust goes again, its purely my issue. I think we have determined that already.
2. After the dyno, the builder will look at the oil, pull the pan off and look for issues, and pull a valve cover off to look for issues.
3. I will see in N/A form what timing makes best power at different rpm's. Peak torque RPM will also be interesting. This will be helpful in tuning.
4. The experience
To a lesser degree, the over all HP/Torque the motor makes at the flywheel N/A will be interesting

I'll bet NA it'll make 400hp given those heads and intake, if the cam is supposed to run to 5500-6000rpm. The torque peak might be in the 3700rpm range, again assuming the peak is aimed at around 5500 or so. If it's over 4000rpm, then the cam might be a little big, made for more rpm than you want. I think I'll want mine to shift before 6k. The springs and lift are big factors in that rpm band choice. I hope a custom cam can be made to be more reliable if it's asked for(limit the lift etc).

 

[shucker1]

@Dono ,

My water pump finally showed up. Nice piece, but made in China. On this one, the impeller does not rub and the quality appears to be there. Its a keeper.

So you had rubbing problems with the FlowKooler Brand or did the quit making them?

Hi Flow water pump 1666 for 302/5.0L Ford

 

[Dono]

Rubbing issues, and on back order for another one. On-line there are many other reports of poor quality control.
I decided the best bet is OEM. That combined with a Mr. Gasket high flow 180 degree thermostat and I will have added protection to what was a non-problem anyway.

 

[Dono]

Don, the cam will not be ordered till after the heads are flowed. With a higher flowing motor, I'd expect peak torque to come down. Also, the turbo will come on much earlier and that will give me the torque much lower in the rpm band. Its all hypothetical, we will see what happens.

 

[shucker1]

Rubbing issues, and on back order for another one. On-line there are many other reports of poor quality control.
I decided the best bet is OEM. That combined with a Mr. Gasket high flow 180 degree thermostat and I will have added protection to what was a non-problem anyway.

Thanks.

Scratch that off the final parts list.

 

[CDW6212R]

Don, the cam will not be ordered till after the heads are flowed. With a higher flowing motor, I'd expect peak torque to come down. Also, the turbo will come on much earlier and that will give me the torque much lower in the rpm band. Its all hypothetical, we will see what happens.

I like that, I too would want a revamped cam selection, given the wear of the cam lobes etc. I hope that issue was an odd mismatch of lobe choices and springs. If we were neighbors, and money/labor was no issue, I'd offer to pull my 347 cam out and let you try it. I had it made for a medium boost turbo application, intended to run NA initially. I gave up on that thought for my Lincoln, that'd be nuts in the car. It's made for Canfield heads, which are just above what the 170's were made for.

You could sell those 170's, and ... for $2800 buy some not yet used High Port 240's. They are listed as flowing 355cfm(@.800). I'm glad those weren't the 225cc versions, and much cheaper. I think he bought those long ago, when they cost $3500ish. Now I think the range is about $2600 new. Bench racing, everyone is a winner.

 

[Dono]

Yea, bench racing is kinda fun, and then we hopefully get to see what actually happens.

I'm not interested in highports. I end up with fitment issues with the exhaust that I don't want to deal with.

As Tim said to me the other day, the motor would be a killer fit for a fox body. Who knows, maybe one day.

 

[CDW6212R]

Oh yes, every one we see here discussed in an Explorer, it's a 10 second Mustang set up right to race.

 

[Dono]

I was over on the yellowbullet looking around a bit and found a current thread on thrust bearing failure.
One of the guys specifically states that trans cooler line restrictions can cause thrust failure. I don't know if he was speaking from experience, but is sure helps validate in my mind about those 90 degree fittings I had in the cooler line were an issue.


"A damaged crank thrust can be the result of a restriction in the transmission cooler circuit caused by a kinked line or restricted fitting or ? High pressure in the converter pushes it forward on the stator support like a hydraulic jack."
Copper flakes in oil - Page 2 - Yellow Bullet Forums

 

[EB4X]

synchronizer

I would soak it with carb cleaner to loosen it up, then pull it out. I would then take it outside and beat mercilessly on it without holding back at all, until I felt better.
Then I would do a victory dance on it.

After that I would probably look around to make sure no one saw me.

I KNOW THIS IS AN OLD POST BUT LOVE IT.... being my Cam synchronizer is STILL stuck in engine!

 

[410Fortune]

if you cam synchro is stuck in a 4.0 engine I suggest you make a simple tool to fit the cam synchro body and fit on the end of a slide hammer...

Basically is a 2" wide piece of steel with two holes drilled in it for the cam sensor screws to go down into the synchro body, then weld a nut in the middle that fits a slide hammer
Remove the nuts from the transmission mount and jack up the back of the trans or t case as high as it will go, this gives you access to the synchro, enough to fit the slide hammer

The aftermarket synchronizers are not machined properly and they get STUCK in the aluminum ear that sticks out from the block to hold the oil pump drive shaft in place. The only way we found to remove it was a slide hammer...comes right out.

 

[Dono]

Small updates.
Still going strong.
I 'think' I fixed most of my oil leak. The valve cover bolt at the drivers side firewall next to the header wasn't very tight. I could see oil leaking down the block with the inner fender cover off. I tightened it (It wasn't easy the first time from the tip I remember and the tool must have bound and I thought the bolt was tight) from inside the fender (1/8th turn at a time) and am certain its tight now. Lets hope that takes care of that leak.

I was loosing a bit of coolant, and couldn't figure out where (No, I hadn't spent a bunch of time on it). With colder weather, there was smoke coming out of the front of the truck and I knew I needed to figure this out. A quick look thru the rad fan and I could clearly see the witness marks of leaking coolant down the center of the rad. Now, I was using those 'thru the rad' thingies to hold my fan on. These were metal as the ones I tried first were plastic, and already brittle. Dont use the metal ones, they wear thru the rad. Sounds obvious, but it obviously wasn't obvious to me at the time. :-(

So, no biggie, I move the fan over to the new rad, and do an awesome job of manufacturing aluminum mounts so I don't need to push anything thru the rad fins this time. Install rad, and start filling. As I'm filling the rad I hear leaking on to the ground. Quick inspection, side tank is cracked. Rad's no good.
I phone around for a rad locally, and they want $400.00, and hard to find. Ok, I'm not doing that. So, I call a friend (vroomzoomboom) and he's at my door step with a rad in less that an hour. WOW. Problem turned out to be that this rad is full depth (2.5") and my old rad is the skinny one at just over an inch deep. Using the thick rad, my fan won't fit as it hits the water pump. ****.
So, I hop on to rockauto and order another TYC rad, since its what I had on there. It shows up, and its the deep rad also (F%#k). I look at what I ordered on rockauto and it specifically stated this rad is 2.5" deep. I got exactly what I payed for.

So, On to figuring out a new fan system that won't break the bank. Tim's set-up would work for me, but it's over $400.00 and I wouldn't be able to get it for well over a month from anywhere. So, on to finding the next plan. A local shop has electric fans, and this is what I came up with. A 14"
and a 12" fan.

Small updates.
Still going strong.
I 'think' I fixed most of my oil leak. The valve cover bolt at the drivers side firewall next to the header wasn't very tight. I could see oil leaking down the block with the inner fender cover off. I tightened it (It wasn't easy the first time from the tip I remember and the tool must have bound and I thought the bolt was tight) from inside the fender (1/8th turn at a time) and am certain its tight now. Lets hope that takes care of that leak.

I was loosing a bit of coolant, and couldn't figure out where (No, I hadn't spent a bunch of time on it). With colder weather, there was smoke coming out of the front of the truck and I knew I needed to figure this out. A quick look thru the rad fan and I could clearly see the witness marks of leaking coolant down the center of the rad. Now, I was using those 'thru the rad' thingies to hold my fan on. These were metal as the ones I tried first were plastic, and already brittle. Dont use the metal ones, they wear thru the rad. Sounds obvious, but it obviously wasn't obvious to me at the time. :-(

So, no biggie, I move the fan over to the new rad, and do an awesome job of manufacturing aluminum mounts so I don't need to push anything thru the rad fins this time. Install rad, and start filling. As I'm filling the rad I hear leaking on to the ground. Quick inspection, side tank is cracked. Rad's no good.
I phone around for a rad locally, and they want $400.00, and hard to find. Ok, I'm not doing that. So, I call a friend (vroomzoomboom) and he's at my door step with a rad in less that an hour. WOW. Problem turned out to be that this rad is full depth (2.5") and my old rad is the skinny one at just over an inch deep. Using the thick rad, my fan won't fit as it hits the water pump. ****.
So, I hop on to rockauto and order another TYC rad, since its what I had on there. It shows up, and its the deep rad also (F%#k). I look at what I ordered on rockauto and it specifically stated this rad is 2.5" deep. I got exactly what I payed for.

So, On to figuring out a new fan system that won't break the bank. Tim's set-up would work for me, but it's over $400.00 and I wouldn't be able to get it for well over a month from anywhere. So, on to finding the next plan. A local shop has electric fans, and this is what I came up with. A 14" and a 12" fan.

Small updates.
Still going strong.
I 'think' I fixed most of my oil leak. The valve cover bolt at the drivers side firewall next to the header wasn't very tight. I could see oil leaking down the block with the inner fender cover off. I tightened it (It wasn't easy the first time from the tip I remember and the tool must have bound and I thought the bolt was tight) from inside the fender (1/8th turn at a time) and am certain its tight now. Lets hope that takes care of that leak.

I was loosing a bit of coolant, and couldn't figure out where (No, I hadn't spent a bunch of time on it). With colder weather, there was smoke coming out of the front of the truck and I knew I needed to figure this out. A quick look thru the rad fan and I could clearly see the witness marks of leaking coolant down the center of the rad. Now, I was using those 'thru the rad' thingies to hold my fan on. These were metal as the ones I tried first were plastic, and already brittle. Dont use the metal ones, they wear thru the rad. Sounds obvious, but it obviously wasn't obvious to me at the time. :-(

So, no biggie, I move the fan over to the new rad, and do an awesome job of manufacturing aluminum mounts so I don't need to push anything thru the rad fins this time. Install rad, and start filling. As I'm filling the rad I hear leaking on to the ground. Quick inspection, side tank is cracked. Rad's no good.
I phone around for a rad locally, and they want $400.00, and hard to find. Ok, I'm not doing that. So, I call a friend (vroomzoomboom) and he's at my door step with a rad in less that an hour. WOW. Problem turned out to be that this rad is full depth (2.5") and my old rad is the skinny one at just over an inch deep. Using the thick rad, my fan won't fit as it hits the water pump. ****.
So, I hop on to rockauto and order another TYC rad, since its what I had on there. It shows up, and its the deep rad also (F%#k). I look at what I ordered on rockauto and it specifically stated this rad is 2.5" deep. I got exactly what I payed for.

So, On to figuring out a new fan system that won't break the bank. Tim's set-up would work for me, but it's over $400.00 and I wouldn't be able to get it for well over a month from anywhere. So, on to finding the next plan. A local shop has electric fans, and this is what I came up with. A 14" and 12" fan. After a quick test, it clears my water pump. This is not ideal, as there is no shroud, but hopefully it works well in the summer with the radiator being larger.

So, installed and re-wired parallel to my dccontrols fan controller in parallel, and it turns out it actually works! I was able to use nut/bolts on the fans on the top and bottom of the rad, and used 3 plastic push thru thingies and I 'hope' these don't cause a leak at some point in the future. For now, all seems good with the mighty explorer. Sorry for the long winded post, but I thought at least a few of you would be amused at how horribly wrong things can go. Also, the fan config may (or may not) be of interest to some.

 

[gmanpaint]

Dang! What an ordeal! Glad you got it figured out.

Long winded? Have you read my threads? LMAO!

 

[vroomzoomboom]

horribly wrong? for you? for your truck?

never....

the plastic ones should be fine. they have been in evil for god knows how many years and i havent seen a leak from them.
glad you have it running. now when are we fixing the trans leak???

 

[Dono]

Funny, I just couldn't believe that the rad that showed up was the full depth one, exactly the one you brought for me.
I'd say it went wrong for me, but all ended well.

I think the better solution is the thicker rad, and hopefully the two fans are covering enough surface area that they will work well in the summer heat. With my old rad/fan setup I experienced temperature creep on one of our blisteringly hot days.

I'm hoping the oil leak was just the valve cover (loose bolt drivers side firewall at the header). I'd be super happy if that was the only oil leak. I really don't want to pull the trans.

 

[Allen Clark]

It is taking you some time to finish this build and so far it is going well on your end. I honestly can't wait to see how it will turn out.

 

[Dono]

Ended up getting these threads mixed up. This one is a part 1 in a 2 part series.

It's like watching one, long, slow motion train wreck.

My New, New 347

I'm abandoning my old thread (My new 347), as the motor has been an epic fail for many reasons. Against any sane reason, I'm trying again. Post #1 is a thread with all parts for my own records. I'll keep adding to this as I have the time and know what parts are being used. New (Used)...

www.explorerforum.com

The good news is that its been well over a year without pulling the motor. The Turbo system has worked flawlessly.
The motor rebuild, well.. Its finally holding together, and pulls good and hard.