Project X = Power Steering with AGR Pump

[gmanpaint]

Okay Ted, Im wanting to replace the PS pump in the 95 Ex. This AGR is a direct bolt on? No mods of the bracket, or anything. Since Autozone stopped selling them, do you know who else sells it at or around the price you paid? I looked on AGR site and it was way higher.

 

[Tbars4]

..Try AGR direct or Summitracing.com for your answers as I don't have a definite one for you..

...I'm not sure I would get another one if the price has gone up let alone significantly...40% more than a good rebuilt one was a lot then for me and although it is better, I wouldn't pay anymore than I did..

 

[gmanpaint]

Summit has it for $130.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AGR-809156/

Okay, so the stock pulley is reused, but do you think a 1" smaller pulley would help even more on the trails? 1500 psi, but how does it do at idle?

 

[Stic-o]

Ted what kind of change did you notice when upgrading the box and pump?

 

[Tbars4]

..The best I can answer the change question is, it was noticeably easier to turn the 35"s..

..As for changing pulleys, I would talk to AGR..They are friendly and are knowledgeable..

..I do need to talk to them myself as I have a little quirk I need to investigate..After driving say down a freeway or pretty straight highway for 30 miles or so, when I get off even in a straight line, it sounds like I have air in the pump..It quickly cycles out after a couple turns but it's something that needs to be addressed.

..The fluid is royal purple, no bubbles or discoloration..

...I like the improvement though but I am really not willing to say it was such a fantastically great improvement over swapping out new stock gear and pump in the first place..The jump to this was good but if I had to do it over and wanted an upgrade, I would put the money toward Hydro assist steering...

..One of my other concerns is the limited availability now.

 

[GWAL1969]

Air shock pump

Just bought my 97 ford explorer eddie bauer with air shocks on it can some one show me a pic of the pump and were it is located

 

[Tbars4]

Warning:

...For those who might have missed it, it seems that AGR's pumps may not be quite as good as they once were..

...This is a current thread here which covers a new AGR pump owners problems with not 1 but 2 brand new steering pumps...
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325489

 

[gmanpaint]

Ted,
I am going to be replacing the intermediate shaft on the 95 Ex, and since I never replaced the whiny ass stock pump with the AGR (read that trouble thread), I figured I would try a system flush and bleed before I replace the pump. I will replace my lines & O-rings. After reading this thread, and the problematic thread, there seems to be an argument on the bleeding procedure.

My Question is.....Bleed it with engine off or engine running?

The AGR instructions confuse me over this. I have always known NOT to turn the wheels with engine off.

 

[Tbars4]

..How I understood the AGR directions to fill the system..This was done with a new pump.

A) Jack the front end up..

B) Follow item 1-13 with the engine off

C) Follow 14-18 with engine on

...Until you have completed 1-13 with the engine off and which is the most time consuming, the system will not be full of fluid and you would run the risk of internal metal on metal damage.

 

[gmanpaint]

Okay, so sounds to me as that is for a new dry pump only. I am just doing a fluid change and bleed of an existing pump.

Thanks.

 

[Tbars4]

...I believe it to be the same procedure for any time you open the system too.

 

[Albino 94LTD]

TBars and IZwhack. What is the best way to drain and /or flush the system?

I already replaced the box a few months ago, now it's time to replace the pump. I can't see a good way to drain the old fluid. (cept for removing the box and holding it upside down, DON'T want to do that if I don't HAVE to)

 

[Tbars4]

..Other than the turkey baster which I've done and it won't do the kind of job needed that you are asking for..

...This might prove to be of some help even though it's on a SOHC, it has further discussions..
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208220&highlight=power+steering+flush

 

[IZwack]

TBars and IZwhack. What is the best way to drain and /or flush the system?

I already replaced the box a few months ago, now it's time to replace the pump. I can't see a good way to drain the old fluid. (cept for removing the box and holding it upside down, DON'T want to do that if I don't HAVE to)

Does your pump have the integrated reservoir on the back? In other words, it doesnt have a remote reservoir does it (with a hose connecting the reservoir to the pump) ?

 

[Albino 94LTD]

Does your pump have the integrated reservoir on the back? In other words, it doesnt have a remote reservoir does it (with a hose connecting the reservoir to the pump) ?

The new pump is the AGR 809156. I'd rather not go through 7qts of fluid like Aldive did (that's expensive).

Stock replacement steering box

 

[IZwack]

Since the only thing we're really concerned about is the steering box itself (you're replacing the pump after all), an idea: What if you
1) disconnect the low pressure / return hose coming from the steering box and connect it to a hose going into a bucket (to collect the old fluid)
2) disconnect the high pressure hose coming out of the pump
3) use a small section of regular hose (from Home Depot for example) to couple the hose from your air compressor to the high pressure hose thats going into the steering box (from step 2).

Then all you would have to do is turn the wheel all the way to one side, let the fluid drain out from the low pressure side and into the collecting bucket, and once the fluid has stopped, push a few squirts of compressed air into the high pressure hose and that should push out most of the fluid thats left in the steering box. Then turn the wheel all to the opposite side and do the same thing.

Just an idea.

 

[Albino 94LTD]

Update

OK guys, I got the pump changed and bled. All was quiet for a couple weeks.

I went on a snow run and the pump started whining and by the end of the day it was pretty noisy.

I thought the fluid might be getting too hot so I hooked up a small cooler and canister filter. All was quiet or a while, mostly road driving.

Fast forward to New Years Day snow run and same thing, quiet to start, whining louder as the day went on.

I picked up a reman-stock pump from Autozone (was driving the Aviator) thinking I would be replacing the AGR pump this weekend. It's still sitting on the bench.

Get in the X this morning and all was quiet with the AGR pump,,,,for a while. Whining louder as the time passed.

Now I'm thinking, this pump moves so much fluid, it's aerating itself as I drive but the fluid level is at the top of 'Hot' so it can't suck air into the pump and if I add anymore, it will just leak out of the reservoir tube when I'm at an angle (up, down or off camber). It must simply be turbulence that's introducing air into the fluid.

Now I'm toying with the idea of cutting the reservoir neck and extending it with a piece of rubber hose to increase the amount of fluid above the return port in hopes of keeping the fluid from getting micro-bubbles.

I don't really want to scrap a perfectly good $140 AGR pump because it's pushing too much fluid

Any other ideas???

 

[Tbars4]

Now I'm thinking, this pump moves so much fluid, it's aerating itself

...That my friend is the same conclusion I have come to thus far..

..Mine will actually quiet down in a few minutes after sitting and a re-start...My theory is putting in a fan forced cooler or at least a large volume cooler for the power steering..

..I have come to this conclusion after even driving down a freeway straight for 10 miles and getting off just to hear the damn thing whining like it's dry when I turn either way..It will quiet down after cycling it a bit but out out trail it gets noisy..

..I read a few years back that guys were adding tube extensions to the pumps and large coolers to quiet these down but that was on some truggy's..

..What is disappointing is AGR themselves do not acknowledge this and this was a concern before I purchased mine...I was assured it would not be a problem on my truck..

..Seeing several other vehicles come to the suffer the same problems and owners come to the same conclusions on their own on other BB's, and AGR themselves not acknowledging this as a problem or admitting you may need coolers and an extension is why I will no longer refer them to anybody..:thumbdwn:

 

[Albino 94LTD]

Hmm, guess I'll try the tube extension and switch the cooler to a fin type aux tranny cooler (no fan).

I should take a video of the turbulence in the reservoir neck when in operation. I was quite surprised. That's why I'm thinking a longer neck might help calm it down some.

Maybe Harold has some fluid dynamics input to help explain possible pump blade cavitation that would cause aeration and potential fluid additives to prevent such?

The only other thing I can think of that might prevent aeration is a closed, pressurized system. I did notice the cap that came with the AGR pump was very loose fitting. I had to add a second O ring (off the original cap) to get it to seal to the point where fluid wouldn't leak out when tilted but I'm not convinced it has a seal worthy of withstanding any pressure above 1 atmosphere.

I know AGR strongly recommends Royal Purple synthetic fluid but I'm running Amsoil. That shouldn't be an issue but....




EDIT: Maybe an under-drive pulley too??

 

[IZwack]

Try a different fluid before you swap out the box - sounds like the current fluid might have already been degraded (strangely) after the snow runs and/or doesnt stand up very well to high temps. FWIW, I heard (mostly from Pirate4x4) the GM power steering fluid is pretty good - there's even a "cold climate" blend (synthetic). But of course, go with the brand you trust.