There are 2 lower control arm mounting bolts in each front control arms??

[JarvisB]

Can anyone confirm that there are 2 lower arm mounting bolts in each of front control arms from our 3rd gens?

I am looking to purchase camber plates from Ingalls and they are telling me that I need 4 plates per front wheel because there are 2 lower control arm mounting bolts in each of our front control arms.

According to this diagram, I can only find one lower arm mounting bolt, which is #3:

I am so confused. Hope some of you can help me.

SPC performance is another company that makes exactly same part as Ingalls and they are saying that one pair of camber plates will complete the front end alignment. While Ingalls are saying I need 4 camber plates to complete only one wheel!?!

 

[jrford]

Whats the part number? keep me posted on what you find.
As far as i can tell too, there are only two bolts, A-arm that can be adjusted in front. Are the 4 plats different by chance, ex, one allows for a -1 to -2 degrees of camber while the other set is 3-4?
As far as i can tell, you remove the old stock plate and replace with a 2 big washers for the most part. . .that would mean 2 plates per wheel.

this link shows two kits, which from the looks of it is actually 4 plates. . .that looks right, and a really nice kit, humm. . .

 

[jrford]

been bought ready to go to the dealer and buy them. . . .?
found these too,
SPC Performance 87310 - this kit looks like it for the Axle, both fronts.
Ingalls still cheaper, one plate mounts to the frame and the other controls the location of the stud, when you tighten them up, the grove in each prevent slipping, or is supposed to.

 

[JarvisB]

Whats the part number? keep me posted on what you find.
As far as i can tell too, there are only two bolts, A-arm that can be adjusted in front. Are the 4 plats different by chance, ex, one allows for a -1 to -2 degrees of camber while the other set is 3-4?
As far as i can tell, you remove the old stock plate and replace with a 2 big washers for the most part. . .that would mean 2 plates per wheel.

this link shows two kits, which from the looks of it is actually 4 plates. . .that looks right, and a really nice kit, humm. . .

no all 4 plates are the same. They are in the same kit therefore they are all the same.

My question is "do we have 2 lower arm mounting bolts in our front end? (2 bolts per control arm?)"

I only can see one lower arm bolt in the diagram I provided up above. Not 2, not sure where did you find the 2nd bolt at. If we only have one mounting bolt then I guess Ingalls is mistaken for some reason.

On the phone, the ingalls representative even checked their instruction manual and they said that the instruction says that 3rd gen explorers got 2 lower arm mounting bolts so thats why we need 4 plates per wheel.

I guess I am on my own to figure this out. I already ordered one set of 86140 and 86180 from ingalls. Hopefully when I receive it I will be able to look into the instructions and determine if we need 4 plates per wheel or not.

I did call Summit Racing to ask them about the camber kit by SPC Performance and they said I will only need one set of 86140 to complete the front end alignment but one set contains only 2 washers. Thats very weird since they r saying I will only need 2 washers to complete the front end alignment while Ingalls is saying that I need 8 to complete the front end alignment lol.

 

[jawillou]

there are two mounting points for the lower control arm. The lower arm looks like an 'A' the top part being where the spindle mounts and the two lower parts being where it is attached to the frame. Im not exactly sure how the plates work but it sounds like you need two plates for each bolt. Two bolts for a side thus 4 bolts/8 plates. does that help?

 

[SuRrEaLNJ]

the call out for number 3 is the bolt that holds the strut, not the one that bolts the controll arm to the frame.

and correct me if im wrong, but dosnt the rear part of the control arm insert into a bushing that is held with a strap to the frame, and the front uses a bolt

 

[jawillou]

you are correct about the rear mount on the front control arm. I assumed that the X had normal control arms which have a bolt front and rear. Now the question is does the different camber kits handle the adjustment differently. Like the one kit only adjusting the front mount where the other adjusts both sides. Just thinking but changing one (either front mount or rear mount) could start affecting other areas like caster or toe. Maybe call again and ask both companies if the kit is for just the front mount or both?

 

[JarvisB]

the call out for number 3 is the bolt that holds the strut, not the one that bolts the controll arm to the frame.

and correct me if im wrong, but dosnt the rear part of the control arm insert into a bushing that is held with a strap to the frame, and the front uses a bolt

If so, then that explains! I was thinking that maybe that isnt the right bolt.

I guess I gotta look for a diagram that shows the lower arm mounting bolts.

you are correct about the rear mount on the front control arm. I assumed that the X had normal control arms which have a bolt front and rear. Now the question is does the different camber kits handle the adjustment differently. Like the one kit only adjusting the front mount where the other adjusts both sides. Just thinking but changing one (either front mount or rear mount) could start affecting other areas like caster or toe. Maybe call again and ask both companies if the kit is for just the front mount or both?

Yeah there are different part # for the rear cambers. but they seem to be the same but they got different camber spec. Apparently the rear uses just one lower arm mounting bolt

 

[JarvisB]

there are two mounting points for the lower control arm. The lower arm looks like an 'A' the top part being where the spindle mounts and the two lower parts being where it is attached to the frame. Im not exactly sure how the plates work but it sounds like you need two plates for each bolt. Two bolts for a side thus 4 bolts/8 plates. does that help?

yeah 8 camber plates to complete the front end. That is what ingalls is telling me.

While Summit Racing said I only need a pair of those to complete the front end alignment

So I guess Ingalls was right after all.

 

[JarvisB]

I take what I said about Ingalls representative back.

I just checked my spam folder and his email was there!

And then I run into more confusion as I was all set that I would need 8 camber washers for my front end and 4 for my rear until I opened this email,which Todd from Ingalls sent me. He said according to the instructions, apparently I will only need 2 per side. He attached 2 pics that were in the manual.


Here is what he said:

After reading the instructions again, it appears that one kit will do both front wheels.

86140
FRT CAMB/CAS KIT-FORD/MERC


Front Caster/Camber Kit

All products available from Specialty Products Company are intended for use by professional installers only.

1. Before beginning any alignment always check for loose or worn parts, tire pressure, and odd tire wear patterns.

2. Raise vehicle under frame and support. Remove tire and wheel assembly.


3. Support lower control arm and remove upper ball joint lock nut. Break the ball joint loose from the knuckle.

Caution: Prevent damaging the ABS wiring or axle joints by supporting the knuckle after disconnecting the upper ball joint.

4. Remove the two nuts that retain the upper control arm to the frame and remove the tabbed washers.


5. Install the new plates on both studs so that the locator pins fit in the holes that retained the stock alignment washer. Install the cam so it fits in the plate recess with the offset hole towards the locator pins (Fig. #1) and install the supplied nuts. Lightly tighten nuts so cam can be rotated.

6. Install ball joint into knuckle and tighten to manufacturers specification. Install tire and wheel assembly, reinstall alignment equipment and compensate,

7. Adjust camber and caster by rotating cams. Do not turn cam over 90( either way from the center position.

Caution: Do not try turning the cam in a full circle. Adjusting cam is not designed to rotate 360(. Damage to the plate may result.

8. Tighten locknut to manufacturers specification. Be careful not to move adjusting cam.

Always check for proper clearance between suspension components and other components of the vehicle.

9. Recheck alignment readings and road test vehicle.

I just asked him to please verify that I only need one kit of 86140 to complete the front end. Also for 86180 which is for rear end, I think I would need 2 kits of 86180. I asked him to verify how many kit of 86180 will i need as well.

it is interesting how they told me that I need to put cambers on the lower arm on the phone but now it turns out that the upper arm is going to be adjusted

 

[JarvisB]

UPDATE:

ultrarev representative and Todd, Ingalls rep, talked to me via email and they talked to each other as well. We all came to a conclusion that we only need one kit of each 86140 and 86180.

They said apparently I only need to replace one camber plate per rear wheel according to the instruction which they said seems to be very easy to do.

For the front wheels, will need to add 2 camber plates to the upper control arm mounting bolt so that is 2 per wheel.

In the end I am pretty glad, I dont have to worry about shelling out another 125 bucks lol.

 

[Partsman109]

UPDATE:

ultrarev representative and Todd, Ingalls rep, talked to me via email and they talked to each other as well. We all came to a conclusion that we only need one kit of each 86140 and 86180.

They said apparently I only need to replace one camber plate per rear wheel according to the instruction which they said seems to be very easy to do.

For the front wheels, will need to add 2 camber plates to the upper control arm mounting bolt so that is 2 per wheel.

In the end I am pretty glad, I dont have to worry about shelling out another 125 bucks lol.

I was just checking these out on the Jegs website. So, if i'm reading this correctly...just one 86140 kit does both sides of the vehicle?... same with the 86180 rear kit?

My truck is not lowered or raised, but I would like to add a little negative camber to help out the handling. Will the stock adjusters be enough or should I install these plates?

 

[JarvisB]

Yes sir, just one kit of 86140 and one of 86180 will do the job for all 4 wheels.

I cant give you an answer to your second question as I have no idea if stock adjusters would be enough. BTW, I am not sure if I would want my vehicle to run on negative camber?

 

[Partsman109]

Yes sir, just one kit of 86140 and one of 86180 will do the job for all 4 wheels.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I cant give you an answer to your second question as I have no idea if stock adjusters would be enough. BTW, I am not sure if I would want my vehicle to run on negative camber?

I'm not exactly sure of the factory alignment specs for the rear, but I would imagine there is a small amount of negative camber either "designed in" or dialed in during the alignment. Same goes for the front, as there are provisions for camber adjustment from the factory.

Why did you put these plates on your truck?

 

[JarvisB]

I have not put the plates on my truck just yet since I have not lowered it yet. (finally got the front end done today, should be complete by tmw)

But I plan on putting them on my truck because once the truck is lowered, the camber/caster is going to be off the spec, the tire wear will be crazy. Those cambers are going to solve the problem.

 

[Partsman109]

So you're using them to correct the suspension geometry after it's been lowered...makes sense.

Do you plan to have it aligned to the factory specs or will you use custom settings to help the handling?

 

[JarvisB]

factory specs. nothing wrong with factory specs.

lowered already helps my handling so no point in having negative cambers that will rob my tires!