"TURDLE" or " How to mess up a perfectly good truck"

[IZwack]

I know there's that "wanting to go back" to IFS voice in your head so naturally, we try to design and build so that something can be undone. And we've all been through this situation one way or another. But as it turns out, almost always, people never go back to the original - they always go forward. So I understand keeping the undo option but if I were you, if its not going to bolt up, I wouldnt worry about the undo option.

But whatever you decide and do, we're with you 100% !

 

[james t]

If you decide to go this route, ill help you all i can, but- you are going to put alot of work into something that just isnt going to work out in the real world like (i guess) its working in your head.

1- GM IFS stuff is junk. Sorry but its true. The front pig is an aluminum 10bolt... stronger than the D35 but not much. Ive owned quite a few including the current one i have. Ive also blown a center chunk apart in a Tahoe on 35's just like the one above.

2- The CV's are weak. Running 35's on them is living on borrowed time.

3- There will be no flex on the rocks. All that ground clearance isnt going to mean a hill of beans when its peg legged (open diff) and hardly no articulation.

4- Expensive unit bearings to replace (compared to solid axle stuff) and no lockouts


I can dig the outside the box thinking but what i dont understand is why you want to spend months swapping a brown turd for a green one? Why are you against a SAS?

 

[Dan Whitaker]

Here is my concern/question.

Will off the shelf parts (stub axles primarily) work so if you break one you can get spares easily? You mention narrowing the axle tubes on the Chevy diff. If you brak the diff it's not a simlpe R&R. It means $$$$ having another diff modified to work.

Why not leave Turdle alone and make it your DD since you have an SAS first gen to wheel with once running?

 

[Albino 94LTD]

True purpose??

Jon, all this talk about 'what if' and D60's and ground clearance.

I went back to page 1 and re-read this thread (well I fast forwarded to page 14 when the offroad bug bit) and there is a lack of direction due to under-defined purpose.

On Oct 6th, you were going to lower it for a tow rig

On Oct 9th, Wife approves of additional offroad mods because "we have too much fun with it"

On Oct 11th you finally state you don't want to hard core rock crawl with it. 35" tires is what you'll run and you want more wheel travel and a smoother ride so you you can run trails like Tin Cup Pass.

IMO. you don't need a D60 unless you're running 40's.

I suggest you step back and clearly define the purpose for the vehicle then look at the options again.

The D44-9" combination has served many people extremey well. Tried and true but admittedly boring.

Remember, the more radical the terrain, the higher the price of the mistakes, physical to you and your rig. Where do you want to go that it hasn't already taken you in it's previous configuration?

I drive mine to the trail and make sure I can drive it home. "Man's gotta know his limitations"

Honestly, define the purpose and the solution will present itself.

 

[Turdle]

Jon, all this talk about 'what if' and D60's and ground clearance.

I went back to page 1 and re-read this thread (well I fast forwarded to page 14 when the offroad bug bit) and there is a lack of direction due to under-defined purpose.

On Oct 6th, you were going to lower it for a tow rig

On Oct 9th, Wife approves of additional offroad mods because "we have too much fun with it"

On Oct 11th you finally state you don't want to hard core rock crawl with it. 35" tires is what you'll run and you want more wheel travel and a smoother ride so you you can run trails like Tin Cup Pass.

IMO. you don't need a D60 unless you're running 40's.

I suggest you step back and clearly define the purpose for the vehicle then look at the options again.

The D44-9" combination has served many people extremey well. Tried and true but admittedly boring.

Remember, the more radical the terrain, the higher the price of the mistakes, physical to you and your rig. Where do you want to go that it hasn't already taken you in it's previous configuration?

I drive mine to the trail and make sure I can drive it home. "Man's gotta know his limitations"

Honestly, define the purpose and the solution will present itself.

Ah, see. You have discovered the reason for indecision

It's the wife's fault.

 

[Limited02]

John, when I put the Dana 44 in the front of my Ranger, it was like taking candy from a baby. Granted I had the coil buckets unlike you, but the only hard part was making the drop mounts brackets which wasn't hard at all I would do a SAS for the sole purpose of simplicity and ease of fixing. You snap a CV shaft on the trail, your screwed(at least more work). Keeping the front aligned after a few good bashings and the overall complexity of an independent front suspension doesn't seem worth the swap to me(I know you are currently IFS). I didn't read enough to know if you are thinking of swapping to a 9" rear, but I thought that Ex's and Mounty's had 31 spline axles? So it'd be pointless in my opinion to do a 9".

Your Mounty is a daily driver correct? If so then pull your other truck to the trail if you want to get crazy and if you are doing a trail within the capibilities of your Mounty, then take the Mounty.

I built my Ranger to be a do it all truck. Mudding, Rock crawling, highway cruiser, but like anything, there's a fine line. You can't really have it all, you can only have a truck that can do most of anything within reason. You want to scale 4ft boulders? Build a truck to do that.

So in closing, if it's a daily driver, I'd leave the front alone or do a dana 44 swap and call it good. I just have this feeling that you will do the Chevy IFS swap, not get it to work out properly and then end up doing the SAS you should have done to begin with. The last thing you want is your truck to sit for 6 years because you don't have the time or cash flow to work on it(my ranger).

 

[crazyflights]

Abino- you have a great post but:

quote
IMO. you don't need a D60 unless you're running 40's.

this is not true at all anything over 35s your pushing your luck -------------

the dana 44 narrow version and 9in is great for Gen 1 swaps ,frame witdh on front rails on Gen1s are narrower than Gen 2s, so on Gen 1 with narrow dana 44 swap the coils and everything lines up good. But what happens on Gen 2s with narrow dana 44 swap is the coils are to tight on the frame and will rub, Only correct solution to this is to go Coilovers if using narrow 44 setup which is fine. I think if you look u will see most 2nd gens with narrow 44 ended up getting coilovers which is way more costly.

2nd good option is to do fullwitdh dana 44 swap from 76 or 77 F150 , with the weld on wedges you can space lower spring mounts in to get proper alignment and still use EB 5.5 lift coils then and not have to space buckets out on the frame.

3rd is go dana 60

In your case for 2nd option to me is best route, easy to make a clean swap, cheaper, and you can sell all your other stuff to pay for this.

Chevy Ifs is out of the question!! There's reason why they are getting rid of it.

Do it one more time and do it right, D44 and 8.8 with 35s will take you anywhere I see you pointing the truck.

 

[410Fortune]

bingo


everything from James T down I agree 100%

Keep it SIMPLE and follow those before you, there is a REASON the SAS is done so often on gen II trucks = not many other choices

My advise Jon is if you really want IFS and 4x4
START SAVING OR LEARNING

start saving money for BTF or DIXON or start fabbing your own uppers and lowers with some sleeved CV shafts....otherwise go SAS you will be a happy camper

the Chevy stuff will put you back at square ONE and in IMO in WORSE shape then you are now, the GEN II IFS is a decent setup UNTIL YOU LIFT IT and put 35's on it, and the Ford D 25 its about as good as that Chevy IFS you posted, in fact I would take the Ford explorer IFS over the Dodge or Chevy torsion bar stuff, they are problematic front ends!!

at the end of the day a SAS will make you the happiest, it can take the abuse from your 347, it can handle the tires, the brakes, ride like a dream, steer straight, and flex like mad on the trail
It will breathe new life into your amazing Gen II transforming it from a PITA to a pleasure to drive

more IFS = more headaches

Now we have all seen the guy who put the TTB in the back of his Ranger and maxed out the RTI ramp at the local 4x4 gathering, i think he also had three transfer cases in that truck too, I am sure he was happy with it and we all remember that truck... but errr yeah at the end of the day NO FRIGGIN WAY hes just asking for it!!!

 

[Turdle]

Oh, A TTB in the rear. Sweet. I hadn't thought of that.


Well, now I feel like an idiot for suggesting that IFS stuff.

Theoretically, it should be able to be made where it would work better than a solid axle for soaking up a bumpy path. Oh well.

Again

Back in a bit with another evil plan I guess.

 

[Dannyboy]

wow, I didn't read this thread for a week and I came back to find this. my head hurts.

 

[dkchrist]

Now we have all seen the guy who put the TTB in the back of his Ranger and maxed out the RTI ramp at the local 4x4 gathering, i think he also had three transfer cases in that truck too, I am sure he was happy with it and we all remember that truck... but errr yeah at the end of the day NO FRIGGIN WAY hes just asking for it!!!

Show me!!!!!

 

[corkey]

yeah , i wanna see a TTB in the back too, i once suggested that as an option for a 4th gen owner,, but got told it was silly,

 

[97sprt4x4]

probably something like this? http://www.trailmonster.com/MonsterRides/DisplayMonsterRide.aspx?ID=61

 

[crazyflights]

Wow- thats crazy and unique!

 

[corkey]

4 wheel steering with a hydro setup would be coool , ,

i like it,

 

[Freshmeat]

Well, so I talked this over with my lovely bride.

Me" going to lower it back down"

Her" no, we have too much fun with it. I thought you liked it"

Me" Well, honey it has reached the point where we broke it. We need a big solid axle under there with a bit higher lift"

Her" Well, do what you have to do then"

Me" It would probably take a dana 60 or the like"

Her" ok, whatever this is beyond me"


You guys are great teachers. I think I 'm getting the hang of this stuff--

I had a very similar conversation with very similar results. Last time out I had to WOT an awful lot to break over plenty of points, as I only have a 2" lift. She didn't like all the banging and bouncing of WOT in the woods.

So I told her we needed to lift it to get it where she wouldn't be bouncing her head off the pillar every time we go out.
"Okay. Whatever. Just take good care of the Explorer." (It was her first car.)

Then I realized no point in lifting without a locker... but didn't want to invest in the TTB any further.

Me: "I think I should upgrade to a solid axle- the 34s are already at the limits of the front axle and lifting it without locking it would be stupid, but I don't want to waste money on a locker..."
Her: "If you think you can make it happen, do it... just do it right; no hacking things together."

More thought, more studying, more of everything...

Me: "If I get a D44 I'll need to replace the shafts with aftermarket shafts. That's $1100 on top of the $250 for the axle. Or I can spend $550 on a D60 and the stock shafts will hold up to the tires I want to run. I'll be SAVING money in the end."
Her: "If you have the money for it, okay. Just make sure this will be something you want to stick with."

She must have still been on cloud nine from getting her engagement ring. Either way, I didn't waste time- went the next day and picked up a kingpin D60.

Good luck in whatever happens with both of your rigs, man. I spent five years building on a Crown Victora station wagon (GT40P, T5, etc) and loved it, but there came a time when I had to just give it up because SO MUCH was going wrong (all window motors, door locks, hinges... just for starters) and I had other things I needed to handle in life.

 

[Turdle]

Well, she moved under her own power yesterday.

And a smoky power brake for old times. Didn't want the neighbors to forget-

 

[GRNMACHINE]

Lost track of this one after following Vitamin D. Have always loved this Mounty!!

 

[racinjason68]

Woot Woot! Pointless without pics!

 

[Limited02]

Maybe I missed it, but what's the plan for the Mounty now? Wouldn't hurt to have another street runner to hang with at the tracks

I know I talk and talk, but the goal this fall is to be able to claim the #1 spot on the 1/4 mile list that currently belongs to you. I have a ways to go before I can claim it, but I'm sure as heck going to try!

On a side note, I need to make a trip to your house to drop a tire off for Steve.