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96 5.0 needs a new motor

Discussion in 'Modified 1995-2001 Explorers' started by AWD96spoon, February 13, 2018.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. AWD96spoon

    AWD96spoon Active Member

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    So my 96 5.0 is getting pretty tired and it' time for a rebuild, but since it's my daily driver I am looking to buy another motor to build and swap in to minimize downtime.
    The question I have is what problems will I run into if I get a later model 5.0 to build?
    Ideally I'd like to find another 96 to build but I'm having a hard time finding one. I already have torque monster headers for the gt40 heads. If I used one with gt40p heads could I delete the egr so the headers would still work? Do the later models require more fuel pressure? I' going to get a differet cam to put in for the build as well. If I have the cylinders bored slightly over will I need different balancers? This is going to be my first engine build so I don't know much. What is a good book to get for building the motor? I eventually plan to make the truck off road only but will be continuing to dd the truck for a while before hand, what other mods should I look into when building the motor?
     
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  3. SWIGIN

    SWIGIN Active Member

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    Boreing will not effect balance. The P heads plug angle might be a problem with your headers. AS far as fuel pressure, if you get a complete motor it will have the regulator on the rails.
     
  4. AWD96spoon

    AWD96spoon Active Member

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    What about the fuel return line? Doesn't ford do away with the return line in 98 or 99?
     
  5. vroomzoomboom

    vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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    you wouldnt have to worry about any of that. just use your rails and injectors off your motor on the one your going to put in
     
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  6. AWD96spoon

    AWD96spoon Active Member

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    Well I got lucky and found a motor out of a 96 yesterday on my way to buy an engine hoist so I went ahead and bought it! $330 for the motor pan to intake. I'm excited to start the build. Ill try to post some pics of the process. Any suggestions on books to buy to help with this project? This is my first engine build so I'll probably get at least 2 books on top of the Chilton manual I have. Putting the motor on the stand today!
     
    Last edited: March 7, 2018
  7. Blown

    Blown Active Member

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    Get yourself Desktop Dyno 5. You can virtually build that motor first. You will learn much and might very well save on expensive parts that don't add all that much power.

    How to understand, Service and Modify
    Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control

    By Charles O. Probst, SAE
     
  8. SWIGIN

    SWIGIN Active Member

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    I'd throw the Chilton away, I've seen way too many skipped steps or just plain wrong things in them.
     
  9. WormsExplorer

    WormsExplorer Elite Explorer

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    I want to see how this one goes. :)
     
  10. AWD96spoon

    AWD96spoon Active Member

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    Thanks for the info guys! I'l look into that book and download the desktop dyno. I am going to try to take my time and do the build right, I've had friends try to build motors and fail miserably due to not taking the time to properly tear down the motor and keep track of parts. This is going to be an adventure for sure.
     
  11. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    Enjoy that project, go slow and learn everything you can about the process. Building an engine is fun, clean new parts and buying some tools, just what men love.

    Keep the engine very close to dead stock parts, or else the airflow will change enough to need(or require) custom tuning of the PCM. I have every engine I build balanced, do not skip a very important thing like that(don't assume the last builder did it right). Balancing a bone stock brand new engine will gain power and efficiency, factory balancing is not like the way engine builders do it. Newest high end OHC engines will be much better than OEM engines prior, but this subject is about normal engines.

    Build the transmission also when the engine comes out. The 4R70W is a wonderful trans, but after 20+ years it's time for some TLC for that when you can.

    If you alter the engine much(cam, intake, heads, piston(compression)), re-tuning the computer will cost a few hundred likely(the flasher device plus the tuning). The 302 I'm going to build for my 99 swap later, will have around 9.4:1 compression, ported lower intake, GT40X heads, and a custom cam(plus valve springs to match it). The extra costs will run me likely $1000 over a bone stock combination, I'm counting the tuning in that. Most people don't want to spend that much extra. But I know the rest of the build will only run me about $1500-$2000, which is nothing compared to later engines that can easily hit $5k or more.
     
  12. AWD96spoon

    AWD96spoon Active Member

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    CDW6212R Thanks for the advice, I will need to do massive amounts of research on compression ratios and balancing an engine. I dont plan on going crazy with expensive parts and unnecisary mods, but i do undrestand the value getting the PCM tuned. I haven' done much research on what's available for tuning but i do plan do have it tuned when I finish. Don't judge too much for this one, but I had a Honda civic a few years back And had it dyno tuned And it ran me about $1100 for the tuner And the tune, but it made the car run so much better and that was with only a few bolt ons to a stock motor. And as far as the tranny goes, I know of a shop in Dallas that will rebuild your 4r70w with upgraded parts for $750, so the week I pull the motor to put the fresh one in, I will be taking it to them to have it rebuilt. I got the motor off the trailer and into the garage a couple days ago(was a major PITA) have to get it on the stand next. I'l try to post some pictures if I can.
     
  13. AWD96spoon

    AWD96spoon Active Member

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    Not the best work shop but it' concrete and the roof doesn't leak so it will have to work. Gonna hang up a better light in there and clean up before I start building.

    20180216_183449.jpg
     
    Last edited: March 7, 2018
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  14. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    Very good. Having a trans bench built is much cheaper than taking the car to them, good find.

    You can leave the PCM tuning untouched if you maintain the stock compression, heads, cam etc. That's what I was aiming at, some people think it's no big deal to alter things, and not touch the programming. That's why my changes will be bigger, if I'm going to alter one thing, why not do more since tuning costs are zero after you commit to one. Pistons will cost about the same for stock versus typical hypereutectic versions. Don't use forged, that's for much higher power and not needed until then.
     
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  15. AWD96spoon

    AWD96spoon Active Member

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    Well I would like to change the cam. And was planning to use the factory gt40 heads but have them machined. I figured the whole valve train would be upgraded. What is a good programmer to buy? I will most likely take it to a shop to have it tuned but if I could save some money and have someone remote tune it that would be okay. I have experience with programmng ladder logic but I think automotive tuning would probably be out of my skill level.
     
    Last edited: March 7, 2018
  16. Centaurus5.0

    Centaurus5.0 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Harbor Freight has moving dollys with 1000lbs capacity for $10-$20 depending on the size. Buy two. One for the engine and one for the trans. Really makes moving them around the garage easier.

    To get the engine on the stand, remove the mount from the stand and bolt it to the engine on the ground. Then lift the motor with the hoist and just slide the mount back in the stand. Easier than trying to bolt the stand on with the mount still attached to a swinging motor.

    My $.02

    :popcorn:
     
    Last edited: February 18, 2018
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  17. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    The stock 302 cams will all do fine with the stock programming, as close as the stock one is to ideal(any programming helps a stock vehicle, the stock program isn't ideal as it is). The HO cam would be my choice for a reliable matching rpm range cam. Most aftermarket cams will have enough change from the mild stock level, to need new programming. The OEM roller cams can also be fine with the stock pushrod lengths and pedestal rockers. A custom cam is typically about $400, and needs specific valve springs to work best. I paid about $250 for the VS kit my custom cam guy(Ed Curtis) wanted on my heads. So a custom cam is more than just the extra $100 for a cam, it's also the special valve springs, which don't come on heads such as Summit sells. The hardware to rebuild GT40 heads is probably a good $100 less than what the stock cam can take. I'd guess to go with a custom cam will add $200 plus pushrods a different length than stock. These are just guesses, prices change fast through the years. Machine work used to be about $300 for a short block, now I think that's at least $500.

    The SCT Excal units are the most preferred for these OBDII vehicles. Then you find the best tuner for what you need, and partly the closest to you.
     
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  18. AWD96spoon

    AWD96spoon Active Member

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    Centaurus5.0 thank you for the tips, I'll be making a trip to harbor freight next paycheck. Gonna get a couple of those and a few other limited use tools.
     
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  19. AWD96spoon

    AWD96spoon Active Member

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    CDW6212R sounds like to do a custom cam, all the hardware for the heads, the different length pushrods, machine work on the heads, an SCT, and a tune around $2000-$2500 would be a good expectation for cost. If I get the crank ground, the cylinders bored .030 over, do I just add .030 to the stock piston diameter and subtract what is ground from the crank from the ID of the connecting rods? Will having the crank ground effect the size of my bearing, and seals? Thank you for all the help, I'm sure some of this is stuff I should already know but i appreciate the info.
     
    Last edited: March 7, 2018
  20. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    That's part of an engine build, the machine shop will tell you what bearings it will need(size), the bore size(pistons) etc.

    It's not ideal to rebuild an engine without balancing the internal parts, I know some people do it by trying to use parts that "match" in weights etc. I prefer to assume the previous builder didn't get everything perfect, and do what I can to make it balanced very well. I grew up where a machine shop would balance the parts to zero(so close not measurable), but now 1 gram is considered perfect, I bet others go to 2 grams or so. OEM used to sort parts by weights, different by a small amount like a gram or so. Then to build an engine, they'd pull parts from the same weight bin, and end up with close balance, not really close to perfect.

    If a PCM tune, custom cam and valve springs are part of your budget, contact the cam designer early to find out what he suggests for the compression. Given your vehicle and usage, the available fuel, he will steer you to about the best choices to get the most from the engine. Don't forget to mention how horrible the exhaust is, nobody really gets how bad they are until they see some of the parts in person. The exhaust is very restrictive, and that slightly effects what the best cam should be. I haven't contacted my guy about the compression yet. I'll ask him right before I'm ready to order pistons, I have the rest which is basically stock except for the heads.
     
  21. AWD96spoon

    AWD96spoon Active Member

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    Okay, so I have been moving fairly slow on this so far and I am a little overwhelmed by trying to figure out a budget. The truck is going to be a daily driver with offroading on the weekends and some trailer pulling. I seem to get the impression that a custom cam is really the best way to go but I don't know of anyone around me that does custom cams, would a custom comp cam be a good option or should I go with someone else? Any suggestions on someone to contact about this? The cam designer will tell me what springs, pushrods, lifters, and rockers to use right?
     

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