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My new 347

Discussion in 'Need for Speed!' started by Dono, May 22, 2015.

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    1. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I'm not sure if the valves should be rotating or not. No clue on that.
      It's all interesting. I know the new build will have a far more critical eye looking at each and every aspect of the pieces and how they go together. Now, I just need to stay out of the builders way. He said he will be posting progress pictures to his facebook, and sending some to me.

      I'm still very interested that he wants to go forged and diamond coated crank. Tim thinks it's maybe because he's trying to protect me against more damage in the event of another thrust failure. The internet says a forged crank is useless in a stock block, but then again the internet also says a stock block will crack. The builder says the stock block cracks due to improper balance, vibration, bad tuning, etc. He could tell from the burn pattern in the chamber that my tune was spot on with no detonation, but that with the new motor the tune will need to change drastically.

      Next on my list is to email Don Lasota and ask him about adjusting trans line pressures in the tune. It looks like there is a torque table that has everything to do with line pressure. I'd rather start will a little less pressure than a little more. lol. Also, I'm sure the HV oil pump will help with the thrust issue also. Did I mention how excited I am about the block being made to work with the longer pump? lol.
       
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    3. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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      don showed me the list and things that are going to be done on his new motor. i see a low 12 coming out of it.
       
    4. Turdle

      Turdle I bake stuff Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      https://www.quora.com/What-is-valve-rotation

      The valve has to rotate to keep the seal, and, to prevent weakening of any of the vale or seat surfaces

      Here is a cutaway video, different engine of course but you will see the valve rotating.

      about 1:35 in the video you'll see the painted dot on the valvespring do what it is supposed to do.
       
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    5. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      I don't think that engine had any balancing problems, it was the valve train obviously, but I would ask about the method they use to balance the assembly. There are a bunch of parts used for the process, bob weights chosen from the engine components, like the balancer.

      Evidently there is some variation on balancer weight quality(location of weight versus the center(moment of force)), which affects true imbalance weight. Plus people who do the balancing select a level of imbalance to accept as a pass grade. Make sure that the exact balancer used, is given to the balancing person, the flexplate too. And ask them to get it as close to perfect as possible.

      I think the builder wants a forged crank because those will flex less than a cast crank, and the flexing is a major component of a stock block cracking. It twists the block mains, the caps move a little, and it all transmits up through the block. I hadn't read of a forged crank specifically helping a stock block survive, but it makes sense to think of it that way.

      The final wheel horsepower will be limited by the airflow that runs into the TB, and out the tailpipe. Restrictions in the inlet or exhaust are more important for boosted or high power engines. Keep working on all of it.
       
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    6. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      yea, this pretty much goes without saying.
      Tim had his rotating assembly balanced by this guy. I think it came out well under a gram.

      I did ask how he plans on balancing to 28oz imbalance when the crank is a zero balance crank, and my flex plate and harmonic balancer are 28oz. The answer was that the cranks always come heavy, and he wont need to remove much material to get the crank to 28oz.

      All that being said, I think I'll email damperdudes and see if they can source a zero balance explorer damper. I'd love to be zero balance on the motor.
       
    7. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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      .3 grams. tolerance was 5 grams

      i do believe ahodges is zero balanced
       
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    8. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      That's great, the better the balance is the smoother the engine runs(crank/rods/pistons). I wish the valvetrain could be quieter. I know the roller rockers have that common sound, but I'd think the better roller system could be much quieter than they are.

      That 14k OHC engine video is nuts, I didn't think the springs would move any at all.
       
    9. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Damper dudes can do the zero balance harmonic balancer, and prw has the zero balance flex plate. I just checked with the builder and he said even though the crank is zero balance, the assembly may want to go the 28oz imbalance direction. He wants me to wait until he gets all the parts and spins the internal assembly. Then a decision will be made. He is looking for a zero balance motor as preference, as we all know.
       
      Last edited: July 25, 2018
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    10. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Excellent, that says a lot about the engine builder/machinist. Good planning, now is the time to make it all right.
       
    11. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Don Lasota was quick to respond, as he always is.
      Here's his thoughts on tuning and line pressure.
      "I doubt it is the line pressure – when that is raised it is better for trans life. The enclosed tune is the last one we sent you 8/23/17 with the line pressure stock.

      My guess is the converter is the issue. Or if you happen to run an Eagle crankshaft or and other non-OEM crank. We had a real issue on one of our vehicles with an Eagle crank – kept eating up thrust bearings.

      The aftermarket VBs can be an issue too."


      I was doing a bunch of reading, and thought the torque table needed to be lowered to reduce line pressure. This was not one of the tables Don lowered, and it is currently quite a bit higher than factory. I'll take the trans settings he sent me and import them in to my current tune. I'm also going to take a chance at lowering the torque table for the initial truck start up while I am measuring the trans pressures. I can always raise these values at a later date.

      TC is being replaced. I'm reasonably confident that the lentech valve body is not the issue, but there is no way to be certain. I remember that when the Valve body was installed initially, that's when I spotted the wiped out thrust bearing last time. It wasn't an eagle crank, but I will be sure to check tc pilot to crank to make sure it can't bottom out in the crank.
       
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    12. shucker1

      shucker1 Elite Explorer

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      @Dono \ @gmanpaint ,

      Thanks for the tip. I almost made the same mistake. After destroying my transmission lines I was going braided SST brake hose and using @CDW6212R suggestion of internal radiator cooler delete and going full external with a thermostat.

      Hose routing was going to make some hard 90's but as per your comment the eventual design will change.

      I watch and learn from the best.
       
    13. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I guess that's why were here. We post the success's and the failures so we can all learn.
      I'm really hoping Iv'e already fixed my thrust bearing issue, but just don't know it for sure yet.
       
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    14. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Torsion Bar Free Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Those that liver way down under America's Hat, can get by without the trans tank in the radiator. It heats, not cools, and calling it the cooler is stupid. lol

      I bypassed the tank, and installed a larger cooler and a pusher fan for it. Trans heats up just fine by itself.

      I see Don's thoughts was on par with mine. I like him, and don't even know him. :D
       
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    15. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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      Ya know you could always come for a drive up here and meet the guy. I heard there is another member near him as well, but that guy is chopped liver I guess
       
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    16. shucker1

      shucker1 Elite Explorer

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      Perhaps one day if I ever get my project finished (Before I Croak)....

      Then again I have to get a passport to come up there I think?
       
    17. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Torsion Bar Free Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I have to get a vehicle that can make that distance first. The rigs I own can't make it around the block currently. lol
       
    18. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Mine either, lol.
       
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    19. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Dono, I would like to see a screen shot of the torque table you are adjusting.
      Could you send me a screenshot?
       
    20. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      More than happy to, except I left my dongle at work today.
      I'll post what Don Lasota had set it at, What I tried lowering mine to, and what factory is.
      I'll put it in the tuning thread I kinda forgot about. lol

      I appreciate all the help I can get.
       
    21. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      For anyone wanting to fallow the whole torque table thing, it's here: Tuning my 347 with rear mount turbo
      I tried to keep things separated. but it was obviously an epic fail.

      My water pump finally showed up. Nice piece, but made in China. On this one, the impeller does not rub and the quality appears to be there. Its a keeper.
      upload_2018-7-26_9-35-51.png
       
    22. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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      and the bottom right hole is flat. thats what did me in last year
       
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    23. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Thanks Tim, its interesting. I would have thought even the aftermarket (GMB,etc.) would have been Ford factory catsting rebuilds, but thats apparently not the case.

      Don, back to your thoughts on the springs you have for your heads, here is what my engine builder is using.
      Valve Spring | PAC Racing Springs
      The spec's are there, so it will hopefully help you.

      Honestly, I would expect that FlowTech inductions is excellent, but with the continued calamity of errors with the motor rebuilding over and over an issue showed up. Its interesting that the cam card spec'd the lower pressure springs also. I'm betting that this spec had more to do with a spec that was recommended with the core, rather than FlowTech's determination.

      I am interested in dropping my new motor on the engine dyno for many reasons:
      1. The builder and I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that if a thrust goes again, its purely my issue. I think we have determined that already.
      2. After the dyno, the builder will look at the oil, pull the pan off and look for issues, and pull a valve cover off to look for issues.
      3. I will see in N/A form what timing makes best power at different rpm's. Peak torque RPM will also be interesting. This will be helpful in tuning.
      4. The experience
      To a lesser degree, the over all HP/Torque the motor makes at the flywheel N/A will be interesting
       
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    24. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      thread abandoned: New thread time so I can find information as I need it.
      My New, New 347
       
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    25. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      I'll bet NA it'll make 400hp given those heads and intake, if the cam is supposed to run to 5500-6000rpm. The torque peak might be in the 3700rpm range, again assuming the peak is aimed at around 5500 or so. If it's over 4000rpm, then the cam might be a little big, made for more rpm than you want. I think I'll want mine to shift before 6k. The springs and lift are big factors in that rpm band choice. I hope a custom cam can be made to be more reliable if it's asked for(limit the lift etc).
       
    26. shucker1

      shucker1 Elite Explorer

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      @Dono ,

      So you had rubbing problems with the FlowKooler Brand or did the quit making them?

      Hi Flow water pump 1666 for 302/5.0L Ford
       

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