1999 Mounty 5.0 aka My Great Bad Idea

[97Sandbox]

One thing I would to address before I start the drivetrain swap is the hard starting my Mounty has developed. Ironically the condition has been become more noticable after replacing fuel pump. It actually use to fire right up in 1-3 cranks.

When I start the Mounty, it takes about 8-12 cranks before the engine starts. However, as soon as it starts, it runs great (no stumbling, stalling, etc.).

It has a new fuel filter and pump and I've verified 65psi at idle. I cleaned the injectors (cycle on and spray carb cleaner through) before reinstalling them with new o-rings during the engine refresh. So I don't think the issue is fuel.

The air filter is new and the air intake, TB, and MAF have all been cleaned. So it shouldn't be an air issue.

I pulled a plug on each bank (plugs are new, Motorcraft and I checked gaps before installing) and they both looked normal. Plug wires are new and well protected. So spark seems like it wouldn't be an issue unless it's a sensor, PCM, or coil pack problem. But I'd think one of those would make the truck run rough after starting.

Battery seems okay, has no trouble cranking the starter over and over and over while I try to start the engine.

Where else should I look?

 

[Fix4Dirt]

One thing I would to address before I start the drivetrain swap is the hard starting my Mounty has developed. Ironically the condition has been become more noticable after replacing fuel pump. It actually use to fire right up in 1-3 cranks.

When I start the Mounty, it takes about 8-12 cranks before the engine starts. However, as soon as it starts, it runs great (no stumbling, stalling, etc.).

It has a new fuel filter and pump and I've verified 65psi at idle. I cleaned the injectors (cycle on and spray carb cleaner through) before reinstalling them with new o-rings during the engine refresh. So I don't think the issue is fuel.

The air filter is new and the air intake, TB, and MAF have all been cleaned. So it shouldn't be an air issue.

I pulled a plug on each bank (plugs are new, Motorcraft and I checked gaps before installing) and they both looked normal. Plug wires are new and well protected. So spark seems like it wouldn't be an issue unless it's a sensor, PCM, or coil pack problem. But I'd think one of those would make the truck run rough after starting.

Battery seems okay, has no trouble cranking the starter over and over and over while I try to start the engine.

Where else should I look?

starter? idk i havent read the rest only this post, but this one did the same thing... long start. new starter now it fires right up

 

[97Sandbox]

starter? idk i havent read the rest only this post, but this one did the same thing... long start. new starter now it fires right up

Hmmm. In my past experience, I've only had starters flat out die and stop cranking at all (have to start the vehicle with the hammer technique). But I suppose a "lazy" starter motor could struggle to crank an engine enough to start. I'd still think an engine would start within the first few cranks though as long as it had good compression.

I have a new starter to go with the flywheel in the manual swap. Maybe I just commit and hope my new starter and new PCM cure the issues

 

[410Fortune]

If you turn the key 3-4 times to prime the pump, does it fire more quickly?

If it does then the fuel system is bleeding down = the system is building pressure while you are cranking

My 03 trac does this, crank crank crank crank start

If I prime the pump 2-3 times it fires off immediately like a good 5.0

 

[97Sandbox]

If you turn the key 3-4 times to prime the pump, does it fire more quickly?

If it does then the fuel system is bleeding down = the system is building pressure while you are cranking

My 03 trac does this, crank crank crank crank start

If I prime the pump 2-3 times it fires off immediately like a good 5.0

I haven't tried it that way since right after I replaced the pump when I assumed I had some air in the line. I'll try it out and see!

 

[97Sandbox]

I let it prime 4 times before cranking. It still cranked 5-7 times which seems like a lot, but noticably less that without priming. What (other than a leak) would cause the fuel system to bleed pressure?

 

[410Fortune]

Well these sport trac trucks use the strange ranger 3 line filter which has a return line to the tank I’m not sure how it’s supposed to hold prime

On the older return fuel trucks there was a little rubber sock on the end of the line that was solely responsible for holding pressure
Your 97 would have one of these as does my 88 bii

That is a good question!

on these 3 line filter and returnless fuel systems I am not sure of the answer, somebody should know and help us out hahahaha
I know my fuel pressure drops to zero very quickly after the key is shut off… never had an issue.
Just sometimes long crank

 

[97Sandbox]

I know my fuel pressure drops to zero very quickly after the key is shut off… never had an issue.
Just sometimes long crank

Yeah, I'm tempted to go "ain't broke, don't fix it" for now. Just seems odd that it used to start easy but run lean. Now it runs great but is hard to start

At least it starts eventually! Maybe my new starter will help, but I suspect we're onto something about the initial fuel pressure being insufficient at startup.

 

[FletcherHubbards]

Fold down those back seats and be amazed by all the cargo room.

Kodi​

 

[97Sandbox]

Started making room for manual swap activities this past weekend:

However, in an interesting turn of events, I picked up a new (to me) daily yesterday. Unfortunately, that means the Mounty will have to wait for surgery until the new daily is fully serviced and the current/soon-to-be-former daily is put back to stock form and sold. The progress is slow, but I am still moving forward!

 

[Fix4Dirt]

Started making room for manual swap activities this past weekend:
View attachment 453540

However, in an interesting turn of events, I picked up a new (to me) daily yesterday. Unfortunately, that means the Mounty will have to wait for surgery until the new daily is fully serviced and the current/soon-to-be-former daily is put back to stock form and sold. The progress is slow, but I am still moving forward!

what is this new daily? does this mean no more sandbox?

 

[97Sandbox]

New daily is an '09 Fit Sport. It'll be replacing my '12 Civic Si. I love the Si, but getting two kids in and out of carseats in a coupe is growing increasingly difficult as they both get bigger. That said, the Fit is an absolute blast to drive: slow as can be, but it's very light and stiff making it fun to toss around (think go kart, Miata, old Civic). And of course it's another high-revving Honda with three pedals so I can at least keep in the powerband.

Don't worry, my Sport isn't going anywhere!

 

[Fix4Dirt]

New daily is an '09 Fit Sport. It'll be replacing my '12 Civic Si. I love the Si, but getting two kids in and out of carseats in a coupe is growing increasingly difficult as they both get bigger. That said, the Fit is an absolute blast to drive: slow as can be, but it's very light and stiff making it fun to toss around (think go kart, Miata, old Civic). And of course it's another high-revving Honda with three pedals so I can at least keep in the powerband.

Don't worry, my Sport isn't going anywhere!

ok then thats fine haha! those get great gas mileage

 

[Turdle]

For the slow cranking, clean the crank position sensor real good. Remove it, clean contacts of both connections with electrical cleaner, wipe reluctor ring with alcohol on a rag.

 

[berniemac73]

Yes. Pulled from a '97 F150 with 118k on them.

Drill bellhousing bolt holes out before going to install trans if it is from 97 4.2 truck.

 

[97Sandbox]

Yep, that's already done. Need to install new slave cylinder, then the trans is ready enough to go in. Just need to get the 4R70W out first!

 

[97Sandbox]

I'm getting very close to diving into the manual swap! My Fit is up to date on maintenance and my Civic is ready to get listed for sale.

One thing I want to do before putting the Mounty on jack stands for a while is pick up a mower from a coworker. I drove the rig to work today so I could bring the mower home and I noticed something interesting. When turning into a parking spot, there was a lot of resistance. Mind you the Mounty drives on dirt and gravel 95% of the time, and this was my first time making a tight turn on pavement for I don't know how long. It did not feel/sound like what I think of with CVs binding, but felt more like the bad tire scrub you get with a welded dif. It seemed like it was coming from the front instead of the rear though. Is that a common symptom of a failing AWD case?

If so, I'm not too worried because I'm replacing the 4404 with a 4406M. But if the case is junk, I probably won't hang onto it.

 

[CDW6212R]

Drain the fluid from the AWD. If it looks like typical ATF than the viscous clutch is still okay. If it's virtually black, then it is the VC and it's dying. One of mine lasted almost two years after I first bought it with the dark fluid. I changed it three times over that period, and after that it finally locked hard; it wore out the front pinion gear and bearings there.

 

[97Sandbox]

Sounds good! I'll do an autopsy when I pull the case.

My front dif already groans a bit (it has since I bought the truck) so maybe the VC already seized.

 

[CDW6212R]

The symptom I had with the locked up AWD was the front binding like a 4WD, but less so. I thought it was an axle so I pushed it off a couple of months, to do all new CA's, plus the axles and hubs again.

The front suspension of that truck hadn't had CA's done but I did the hubs and used axles plus diff, when I first got it. It had bearing noise when I bought it, so I swapped the parts from my Mountaineer that had not very old parts on it. New CA's and axles didn't fix the binding, which was worse driving to the alignment shop. I got under the truck and then found the loose front pinion flange, it moved a bunch, say 3/8" or so.