HHO: Is it alchemy? Or will it improve gas mileage on a ’99 4.0 SOHC Explorer?

[manaen]

My purpose in this thread was to report on my experimentation with HHO, I did not intend for all the naysayers to come out from under the rocks and be negative about this project.

I reckon I shall cease the reporting on my project, but not my research.

Hey I am pullen for you if this works I would love to give it a try. Don't let my logical questioning be regarded as a big poo poo on the project.

One other thing I was also thinking is that the amount of HHO produced is steady, yet the engine RPM is in constant change so the concentration of HHO to the air would be on a decreasing ratio in proportion to the RPMs. Can you create a map that handles something like that? So I would guess that the higher the RPM's the closer the map should mirror the stock mixtures.

 

[local7teener]

I have my new hho setup almost done (round stainless tubes).. I'm going to hook it up to my 5.0 and using my livelink see what the o2's do with the more oxygen in the exhaust.

Call me stupid, but i still don't know what a lean (more o2 in the exhaust) will look like on the sin wave the o2's put out. I guess i understand it takes an average the high and the low of the wave to check against stoich (.45v).. So my guess would be a lower high point on the wave? Somebody correct me please.

 

[GJarrett]

My purpose in this thread was to report on my experimentation with HHO, I did not intend for all the naysayers to come out from under the rocks and be negative about this project.

I reckon I shall cease the reporting on my project, but not my research.

Al quit being pissy. This is an unknown/unproven arena by unbiased testing that any of us trust, and by nature should be questionable until proven. Any naysaying I've read has been honest - I also don't know if the HHO output will be enough to have a huge effect - and Joe's questions are not only honest, he wrote he's been wrong before and I am sure he is as curious as the rest of us.

If you find out something of worth in this project and then go pout in your corner and don't report about it, all that will do is confirm the "naysayers" suspicions and deprive others of useful knowledge. What a mature thing to do that would be

I'm sorry I wasted my time participating in this thread.

 

[manaen]

To have a 10% effect on the BTU load, you would only need to make 1.25 Cubic Feet of HHO gas per minute; that is quite achievable, although I doubt that the surface area of the unit you currently have can achieve that alone. Multiple units probably would.

Very interesting :scratch:

 

[lycan91]

i would love to know your numbers al. this is a very interesting and confusing(all that math) project in my eyes. so please let us know your results.

 

[Pensa]

"My purpose in this thread was to report on my experimentation with HHO, I did not intend for all the naysayers to come out from under the rocks and be negative about this project.

I reckon I shall cease the reporting on my project, but not my research."

Nothing negative here, in fact anxiously awaiting your results.

Having said that I know as well as you do there are HHO kits of all types and the one you have started with is probably not the most efficient. It will be interesting to see how much of a gain you get from this simple installation.

Since the output of these units are constant I think it would be informative to see the results at different average speeds though.

It does seem to me the gains will drop as the speed increases since the ratio of gas to HHO will change with RPM.

 

[MustangP51]

Well I just threw one together quickly using 2 razor blades, Skippy Peanut butter container, and a computer power supply. I was shocked how well it worked, Maybe this will work!

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12BZgg4rh44

Al by any chance does the one you have make the water turn a greenish brown color?

 

[aldive]

If you find out something of worth in this project and then go pout in your corner and don't report about it, all that will do is confirm the "naysayers" suspicions and deprive others of useful knowledge. What a mature thing to do that would be

I'm sorry I wasted my time participating in this thread.

Gerald, your input is always welcomed.

When do we expect to see some testing on your part?

 

[manaen]

Well I just threw one together quickly using 2 razor blades, Skippy Peanut butter container, and a computer power supply. I was shocked how well it worked, Maybe this will work!

Al by any chance does the one you have make the water turn a greenish brown color?

Now do something real scientific and see if you can make a balloon bomb with it

The green is coming from the copper wires you used. basically your removing copper from the wires much like the electro plating process. The wires will eventually be depleted and fall apart, rather quickly actually depending on the load your feeding it.

 

[joefnh]

Al I certainly was not trying to be a naysayer, I was just trying to define the amounts of HHO gas that you would need to have an impact on the mileage. Certainly as pointed out 1.25CFM is quite achievable

With that said, here are the images from my homemade version. This is meant as a concept version only and consist of 1 cell 8" in length, made of 316L stainless steel (all internal components)

I intend on scaling up this version to a total of 6 cells, built in a circular pattern.

Currently this version can produce 3.6 cubic feet per minute (CFM) using a PWM circuit running at ~ 12kHz, 95Volts @ 3.1 amps.

I should have some MPG results this week.

Al keep up the good work.

--Joe

 

[iggy1718]

Ok I have already built and have tested one of these that i have built. I used 4" PVC tubing with a cap at the bottom and a screw on lid with a brass port at the top and the positive and negative connections also. I tested this on my trip to the beach here in DE and got worse mileage. The problems I have seen with my setup is that after a couple hours the water starts to boil which we all know steam doesnt combust very well. I built a pretty big unit which held a gallon of water and had 12 stainless plates inside. It produced quite a bit of HHO but it needed alot of power also. It kept blowing 30amp fuses in no time. I was using 10gauge amp wire and upgraded to a 40amp stereo style fuse holder.... the big barrel type. It got hot but didnt blow.

I will be installing a small pump and ratiator to the system to cool the system and keep it from boiling and adding a bubbler to it so only the HHO gas is released into the system.

YouTube has a ton a vids on this which is where I got my design from.

 

[aldive]

tested this on my trip to the beach here in DE and got worse mileage.

Did you take into consideration the inaccurate O2 data reporting to the PCM?

What did you use for electrolite?

 

[aldive]

The HHO generator has been installed only one day and I am already modifying it.

I am not pleased with the location of the HHO inlet in the intake.

I took off the Mac intake tube and drilled a hole ( the size of the ¼” barbed fitting ) at the bend in the tube just before the throttle body.

I used Loctite epoxy to attach a ¼” double barbed brass fitting ( shortened on one end ) to the hole and moved the ¼” tubing to this new inlet.

This made a much cleaner looking install.

 

[aldive]

Al by any chance does the one you have make the water turn a greenish brown color?

Not as of now; still crystal clear.

 

[aldive]

As reported earlier, my idle is rock stable with the HHO set up running.

I got to thinking, heck, the idle was rock stable without the HHO due to the PCM modifications on this particular tune.

I decided to load the stock PCM tune and see how the idle was with and without the HHO running.

The idle was somewhat crummy with the stock tune, yet when the HHO was running, the idle was rock stable.

 

[joefnh]

One issue to be thought of are the combustion rates of gasoline and oxyhydrogen. Gasoline combusts at a rate of about 500 feet per second as measured by the flame front propagation.

Oxyhydrogen burns at a rate of about 2000 feet per second (much faster than gasoline). When mixed with gasoline it acts as a catalyst causing more of the liquid fuel to be consumed rather than expelled as exhaust or clinging to the inside of the cylinders. Since the byproduct of combustion is pure water you are also cleaning and cooling the engine at the same time.


You might want to consider adjusting the spark timing to compensate for the differences in the burn rates.



--Joe

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Gasoline combusts at a rate of about 5000 feet per second as measured by the flame front propagation.

Oxyhydrogen burns at a rate of about 2000 feet per second (much faster than gasoline).

Joe, your science has been extremely fascinating to follow, but please explain how 2000 ft/s is faster than 5000 ft/s, and how the subsequent statement holds true.

 

[MustangP51]

I think he just added one extra 0. I think I remember hearing that gasoline burned 500 ft/s from somewhere.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

I think he just added one extra 0. I think I remember hearing that gasoline burned 500 ft/s from somewhere.

Word. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[joefnh]

V8BoatBuilder & MustangP51 Thanks for noticing that I did mean 500 FPS (flame front propagation rate)


--Joe