I need some help with the springs on my SAS

Well I am doing a SAS with a waggy 44 and stock waggy leaf springs (the ones with 7 leafs in the pack). Basically what I did was make my front and rear hangers sit level with one another, then added a shackle and by all measurments I was to sit level. I finished tacking everything into place tonight, and proceded to let the truck down to see how it sat. When I did, the wheel base streched 2" longer, and the front springs sit at an angle... 3-4" lower in the front than they do in the rear. It is acting as if the spring isn't holding the load of the truck, therefore the spring is sitting like / that (just not as extreme). Do yall understand what I am saying, or am i just confusing the hell out of everyone?

Thanks for any help
Chris

 

[Isles4evr]

It is sitting something like this:

 

[Isles4evr]

Could it be because I have the front hanger/shackel combo to long so there for the spring isn't fully arching? I'm thinking of making the shackle 3" smaller so that way it would put more arch on the spring. It would essentialy lower the truck by making the shackle shorter, but raise it at the same time by adding more arch to the spring, correct? I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight because of this... arrrrrr

 

[Kirby N.]

The spring arch height is going to be dependant on the weight you have on it, not the size of the shackle. I would make the shackle length based on the extension of the sping. When the spring compresses it gets longer from eye to eye. The shackles job is to allow this to happen. Make your shackle long enough so that it allows the spring to get completely flat. Also, the longer shackle will make the pinion angle change more during compression. With the shackel at the back of the spring, your pinion will point further down after compression. You have to be careful it doesn't do this too much and break your driveshaft. Lastly, I don't think it will matter much if the spring is perfectly level. It might make it ride better.

That is all I know. Hope it helps...

 

[Isles4evr]

It does help some. My brain was a little fired last night thinking about it for so long. After a good nights rest and looking at it this morning I believe it is due to the front mount being too far foward. I am going to move it in some, see what it does, and if it helps, adjust the shackle accordingly. I do appreciate your help Kirby.

Chris

 

[Chief34]

It really looks like you have evreything done right. What it looks like to me is that that spring doesent have enough arch for you and/or the spring is too soft and can not support the weight of the vehicle any higher.

Here are a couple of shots that I found of my front set up. It sort of shows what mine looks like. As you can see the spring is not level by any means. The suspension actually travels backward and upwards as it is traveled. It works very good.

If you still need, I could go and take a picture of it that is better without so much wheel in the way. Just let me know.
Good luck,
Tim

 

[Isles4evr]

Yeah that is kinda what mine looks like, only I have my shackle in the front. I will probably move it to the rear befor eI am all said and done though. As far as the springs, they are stock waggy springs, and sit almost perfictly flat. I will snap a pic tomorrow while I'm at work.

Thanks
Chris

 

[Chief34]

You should definately move the shackles to the rear. That is how they are designed to work, you can have them in the front but the suspension movement will be working against itself. Jeeps come stock with shackles up front, but that is why they make a shackle reverse kit. Anyway, it really sounds to me that you just need more arch to your spring, which unfortunately will most likely change your leaf mounting points unless you just get longer springs to match. I am running 37's as well and you can see in the pic that my springs have a lot of arch to clear the tires and I still need to trim because they hit my fenders in the bottom corner. They are National soft rides and they flex very well. The thing to keep in mind is that with the shackle in the rear the tire will move back toward the fender on the way up. It works the best but you need more wheel well room to clear big tires....
-Tim

 

[Isles4evr]

I was wondering why jeeps came with them in the front, now i know. I am going to make up some shackles to mount in the rear, anmd move the front hanger in a little bit to help with the arch some. With the springs completly flat and what would be like a 1.5" lift shackle for the rear of an explorer the truck sat level. So i think that if I move the front mount in a bit and shorten the shackle everything should work well togehter. As for the clearence, I streched the wheel base 2 or 3 inches so that should help it out when it flexes. Also, Cheif, where did you get the springs, and how much did you pay for them (if you don't mind). I am also planning on running a 37.

Thanks for the help
Chris

 

[taxx]

Those springs are prolly just too old and soft for your truck. You could build the pack up easily enough. Just curious but with a coil sprung front end already why did you go to a leaf spring setup?

 

[Isles4evr]

I was thinking that the springs have just settled too much. I imagen I will finish the swap and then decide on new springs or not.

As far as why I chose leafs instead of coils, well.... The coil bucks would need to be modified ro replaced for one. two, there are a lot more components to install and eventually break. Three, the easy on install. And lastly, to be different I guess. If I ever redid the SAS without leafs I'd probably go coil overs, but honestly I didn't feel like spending the money and taking the time to fab everything up. Worst case seniaro, if I hate it it'll sit for a bit then I'll get to changing everything.

Chris

 

[Isles4evr]

Oh yeah, BTW, does anyone happen to know the stock wheelbase of a first gen 2rd? I have searched and searched but can only come up with the spec for 4ds. I believe it is like 104, but I am not completley sure.

chris

 

[Yomie]

The sport should be around 102 and 4dr around 111

The stock waggy springs were designed to have no arch(or very little) at ride height, if you want a waggy spring with arch go with the 2.5" 44044's

i have waggy springs, gabe has waggy springs, and Lizard has them also

 

[Isles4evr]

Yeah I have seen a lot of yall with the springs, that is why I decided to go with them. Are you happy with them? Do they offer a good mix between flex and ride quality?

Thanks
Chris

 

[Yomie]

They flex really well, the ride is much better than my tortion bar suspention, i don't know how it will compare to your stock coils, but with an adjustable shock you should be pretty good

 

[Chief34]

Also, Cheif, where did you get the springs, and how much did you pay for them (if you don't mind). I am also planning on running a 37.

I got my springs from National Spring. They are Soft ride springs. They weren't cheap, 210 a piece, but they were worth every penny.Sounds like you've got it on the run now.Another good thing about leafs is they are way cheaper than coils or coil overs.

 

[Isles4evr]

Yeah I will keep those in mind if need be. I hvae the truck rolled out of the garage now, until tomorrow night. My boss also owns a trucking company and I have to put brakes all the way around on one of his trucks, so my truck had to come out. Seems a little unfair to me . I'll get working on it again durring the week though.

Thanks for all the help
Chris

 

[Robb]

Another good thing about leafs is they are way cheaper than coils

Hmmm, $420 for a set of aftermarket leafs as compared to $150 for aftermarket coils.

Hey Chris, if you decide you want to try experimenting with adding a leaf or two to your pack to help with the weight, I got a couple Waggy packs sitting around that you can have. Just come by and grab em.

 

[Isles4evr]

That's not a bad idea Robb. What type of payment do you accept, 6 pack or 12 pack . Hows the truck comming?

 

[Chief34]

Hmmm, $420 for a set of aftermarket leafs as compared to $150 for aftermarket coils.

Well, First of all I was actually thinking of coil overs when I said that which are VERY expensive..... But now that you mention it....

Leafs are all you need besides shocks then you just have to make some leaf mounts. Coils on the other hand require a Traction bar and mounts for it, Coil buckets and "link System" to hold everything together, Right? Fabbin up a Link is not cheap. Brings the total a bit higher than 150 dont you think? Plus one other thing is Depending how high you are lifting, My truck has about 16 inches lift not including the highth gained by the larger tires... I never saw a set of coil springs bigger than for a 8 or 10" lift. And the ones I remember seeing that were that big were order only and were more than 150. I might actually change my front end when I get a dana 44 to Coil overs with a 4 link if I have the money at the time, only because It would give more room under the fenders because the travel is going straight up and not backward toward the lower corner of the fender. Anyway, leafs are simple and work great so I like 'em for now.
-Tim