My new 347

[4pointslow]

coolant leak

Check the header bolts, I heard on some engines that they may go into coolant passages also. Maybe you can drop a little water on the coolant and blow it off with compressed air and then pressurize the cooling system again to see if it is coming from the head bolts or header bolts?

 

[Dono]

I need to spend some more time on this. Maybe getting the truck up high on a hoist will help me see whats going on.
Water/coolant is insidious. It pools, air pushes it around, gravity does its thing, and on it goes.

Here comes cringe #2 from everyone. Ready? K&W Block sealer.
I just added about 1/4 bottle and I'm headed out for 4 1/2 hr drive to a music festival right now. Its not like its a head gasket issue or anything, just a slow leak under pressure. I had some block sealer recommended to me, and started thinking seriously about it. Then, will Google being our friend, I found there are lots of guys that hsve gone down this road with similar issues with great results.

Lets see if it makes my issue go away.

 

[CDW6212R]

I need to spend some more time on this. Maybe getting the truck up high on a hoist will help me see whats going on.
Water/coolant is insidious. It pools, air pushes it around, gravity does its thing, and on it goes.

Here comes cringe #2 from everyone. Ready? K&W Block sealer.
I just added about 1/4 bottle and I'm headed out for 4 1/2 hr drive to a music festival right now. Its not like its a head gasket issue or anything, just a slow leak under pressure. I had some block sealer recommended to me, and started thinking seriously about it. Then, will Google being our friend, I found there are lots of guys that hsve gone down this road with similar issues with great results.

Lets see if it makes my issue go away.

I agree with your first part there Don. Spend enough time being sure where the leak is from, before R&Ring parts, ...or using a last resort stop leak product. The stop leak things aren't bad generally, but you don't want to rely on them, or mask a problem that may come back, ...at the worst time.

 

[Dono]

K&W Block sealer....1
Coolant leak...........0

I discovered an oil leak. Yup.
Im pretty sure its the dip stick tube. I installed it dry as I wanted to make sure I could pull it out when I need to do something with the drivers header.

Tonight I pulled it, ran some ultrablack sealer around the top area where the tube sits against the block (hoping it will behave a bit like an O ring).and let it dry for a while. I then covered the rest of the area that pushes in the block with non hardening gasket. Lets hope that fixes it.

Getting that dip stick tube back in was just like having sex for the first time. I did finally get that tube in the hole though.

More to come on this, but I'm pretty sure this was the leak.

Tuning has started. My truck is pretty hard starting when warm, so I sure hope it can be corrected thru tuning.

In the 7 hours driving over the weekend there were no issues (Other than my leak). The passing power was a beautiful thing on the single lane highway.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

if you cant find the leak, we are not, i repeat NOT pulling it and putting a 363 in!!!!

 

[Dono]

An oil leak started this, and I don't think id stay married if an aftermarket block showed up. I really need to fix this one. Remember this, and keep me sane if I start talking stupid.

 

[CDW6212R]

Sounds great to hear you figured it out. Now enjoy it for a while, and tend to the little stuff. Have fun.

 

[Dono]

And, she's coming apart.
A shop spent some time with it on the hoist and says its either back of oil pan or rear main.

I really doubt rear main. No real boost has hit the motor (5 lbs). So, either way, the motor needs to come out. I'll have a chance to look for gear bits. Ugh. Turn brain off and get to work.

If its rear main, I'd think id see it pushed out. I'm not in boost a whole lot so I don't believe pressure is pushing oil out. The leak is quite bad though.

So, new motor, and I'm leaking very close to the same amount of oil as the old one. Think I'm happy?

Tim's a champ. He's the first guy offering up his time 'again'. Tonight I pulled the front diff, upper intake, and exhaust bolts. Rad is empty and ready for me to remove. I hope to pull the motor sometime on the weekend and be able to have most of the work done so Tim can show up, help me with the converter nuts, and pull the motor. My worst fear is that with my limited knowledge I still wont be able to pinpoint the leak. If its rear main, I can't help but wonder what crank end play will be.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Tim's a champ. He's the first guy offering up his time 'again'.

yea, well lets tell the FULL story....
me and my big mouth kinda jinxed this. when we finished putting it together, i jokingly, i repeat J O K I N G L Y said, "ya know, almost everyone that i have seen on EF in the last while that has done a stroker has had to pull it, or pull something major out at least once right? Turdle had to, ahodges had to (pull the heads), there was some other guy around the time my crank failed had to, ford99_1979 had to (pull the trans) i had to.....
so yea, because of that one remark, i should have to suffer just as much as don....and that will teach me to think before i speak...

 

[4pointslow]

So, new motor, and I'm leaking very close to the same amount of oil as the old one.

New motor, oil leak in the same spot as the old one. If the rear main seal and oil pan gasket look ok...... Is it the same oil pan that was on the old engine? is it aluminum? maybe a hairline crack?

Hopefully you get it straightened out quickly so the truck is not down for long.
You guys already got a start on it, that's a good sign!

 

[Dono]

Tim came up with the same thought that it might be oil pan.
The pan is steel. It looked in really good shape to me.

With the Diff out, I can get a much better look at things. The pan looks ok. The oil pan seal looks wet with oil at the back of the motor, but I'm not sure that it means anything. The way the oil was flinging around on the highway its tough to know.

I will be taking a good hard look at the pan when it comes out. Assuming the pan's ok, I'll need to decide how I want to put the new pan gasket on.
I know there are those recessed points at both 'end's' of the crank that I need to goop right up, but should I use ultra black/grey on both sides of the gasket also? Its my instinct to goop the crap out of both sides of the gasket sealing surface everywhere when re-installing. I have also heard that doing this can cause the gasket to squeeze out.

 

[Dono]

http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1387523-302-oil-pan-gasket.html

Looks like I need a different oil pan gasket. Woody calls the one I used 'Useless'.

 

[4pointslow]

gasket

It might just be "Carma" , which is magic car spirit making you remove those metal pieces of the cam synchronizer. lol.

How about that coolant leak? Did you eliminate that problem already?
With the engine out, it would be the perfect time to make sure everything is taken care of.

I only use ultra copper sensor safe RTV now, I keep two tubes in my garage at all times.

Hope everything goes smoothly, truck is going to be awesome when it is finished!

 

[Dono]

No coolant leaks any more.
So, on the one side that the bottom head studs were leaking coolant, do I pull the ones that were leaking (Clearly visible, by white residue) one at a time and try resealing with pipe sealant? a big part of me wants to follow the 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' rule.

I just ordered the FMS-M-6710-A50 oil pan gasket and Fel-Pro 2941 Performance Rear Main seal. I'd prefer to have both on hand.

 

[CDW6212R]

I'm sorry to hear you still have leaking.

Keep hunting for it, look as far up and forward as you can find the wetness. All fluids will flow down and back, so the leak is usually at the highest forward most point.

The stock kind of oil pan gasket is great compared to old school cork crap. They can work fine, but they are still more prone to leaking than the full length metal cored type. Use those if you can get them when you need it.

You don't have to use RTV over the whole surface, but the gasket itself must be nice and smooth, no cuts etc, or it will leak without the RTV. Just make sure it's all clean and dry, that's the biggest key.

If the head studs did leak some, I'd want to R&R those too. Take it slow when you put it back together. No more leaks please.

 

[Dono]

No more leaks please.

Tell me about it. Geez.

I'm sure these are rookie mistakes and I'm doing something not quite right.
I can research all I want, but I don't build motors and sometimes experience can be everything.

I thought the motor went together super clean as I rubbed everything down with brake cleaner before installing any gasket. I even used super tack on all paper gaskets. I thought I had taken proper precaution on the outer head studs with pipe sealant. I thought I did a lot of things to avoid these issues, but obviously I did something(s) wrong.

 

[delexploder]

I used the blue one piece fel-pro on mine with no problems

 

[Dono]

I used the blue one piece fel-pro on mine with no problems

I'm not sure what is, or isn't. I find it hard to believe the blue pan gasket is a bad one. I don't even know for sure where my leak is coming from yet. Maybe the steel core one is just more forgiving, I don't know. I highly doubt that there is any other company that builds more sbf's than Woody, so I'd still think my best chances of success are to follow his recommendations.

 

[Dono]

A bit of an update.
Motor will come out tomorrow. Tim will be coming over with his hoist and stand in the back of his truck (Again). Its pretty much ready to come out. Tonight I'll pull some of the wiring back from the starter and around the motor, and see if I can get some help from someone to turn the motor over to get those torque converter nuts.

I spoke with Woody today. Very nice, and very helpful.
He said he can say with 99% certainty that my issue is the pan gasket. He said they can be 'difficult' at times. This was said after he asked about valve covers and lower intake valley. Everything is dry up top.

His tips are to use sealant on both sides of the gasket at the corners at the 'U'. Also, he feels a very, very thin coat of ultrablack (ultra copper) along both sides of the gasket on the U can help as long as you can leave it to dry for a day or two before adding oil. Woody said he thinks the blue gasket is more than likely fine, but it just didn't work in my case.

Info on the rear main seal. Woody says that this is the most blamed point of leaking of all time and its not justified. That I believe.
He uses standard seals as he knows they are proven and cant risk trying different seals since newer unproven stuff could go very bad and cause him all kinds of pain with all the motors he builds every year. I do have a teflon rear main now, so the question becomes.....Do I install it?
Also, Woody asked me if I have pushed my dipstick, or dipstick tube up while I was doing wot pulls. I know for sure that this has not happened. Crank pressure is tolerable if the tube isn't popping out, as its the first thing to open up if pressure is building in the crank case.

Also, Use pipe sealant on the flex plate to crank shaft bolts as they are straight thru. I did not do this. It doesn't account for the amount of oil I am seeing on the floor, but it is something I will correct on re install.

Woody did prepare me for the fact that he really doesn't think I will find anything overly obvious when I get the motor out.

 

[4pointslow]

Oil leaks

Please take pictures of the back of the engine and the bottom.
With and without the flexplate removed. Also get the bottom of the engine where the pan meets the block, both sides. Take pictures of the inside of the transmission bellhousing too. Get good pictures, post them here.
Oil leaks suck, but you will get it nailed down and will be putting it back in before you know it.