Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

[jd4242]

Gota love this forum, the amount of help and knowledge is AWESOME! ! Dont worry man you get it figured out soon and the smile will make it all worth it.

 

[Dono]

Ok, exhaust leak on bank 2 where the wideband is. I notified James about this, and he felt it would be ok. Maybe not.

I have the injectors out now. What would be the best (safe) way to test them? I could check resistance. If I applied 12v to each one briefly, would I feel the click of them opening up?
Maybe take them in to a diesel shop and see how much they would want to test them?

If one or two is dumping a ton of fuel, I may have fouled a couple of plugs.
There was gas in the oil, and I had to give the oil a change before driving anywhere.

 

[CDW6212R]

Ok, exhaust leak on bank 2 where the wideband is. I notified James about this, and he felt it would be ok. Maybe not.

I have the injectors out now. What would be the best (safe) way to test them? I could check resistance. If I applied 12v to each one briefly, would I feel the click of them opening up?
Maybe take them in to a diesel shop and see how much they would want to test them?

If one or two is dumping a ton of fuel, I may have fouled a couple of plugs.
There was gas in the oil, and I had to give the oil a change before driving anywhere.

Are the injectors new, or how long have they been stored after being run with gas through them? Used injectors will clog up eventually while stored, I'd clean any before reusing them.

 

[4pointslow]

datalog

Ok, exhaust leak on bank 2 where the wideband is. I notified James about this, and he felt it would be ok. Maybe not.

I have the injectors out now. What would be the best (safe) way to test them? I could check resistance. If I applied 12v to each one briefly, would I feel the click of them opening up?
Maybe take them in to a diesel shop and see how much they would want to test them?

If one or two is dumping a ton of fuel, I may have fouled a couple of plugs.
There was gas in the oil, and I had to give the oil a change before driving anywhere.

If you had a datalog before installing the turbo and the wideband was reading ok with the exhaust leak then maybe it is not a big enough problem. You should however not have any leaks before the wideband if you want it to be accurate.
Just a resistance check on the injectors may not be enough, they could flow differently. But, where they new? You have the stock injectors back in? How does the wideband look now? How does it run?
Did you put rockers on this motor? if so one could be coming loose?
You need the engine in running condition to diagnose the misfire if it has one.
First step would be to figure out which cylinder or cylinders are misfiring(power balance test can be done with test light or unplugging injectors one at a time), then find out is it compression, spark, or A/F mixture. A leaking lower injector o ring could cause a lean misfire, uppers cause fuel leaks.

What about your charging system, why is it not charging?
A lot of info at once, I am sorry if I confuse anyone.

 

[Dono]

I've never had an issue with charging before.
I think I have beat the crap out of my battery and it needs a good charge. I think the alternator is an aftermarket higher amperage unit, and from understand they do not charge as well at lower rpm's.

I just took my injectors in to a diesel shop that specializes in injector testing and cleaning, they will hook them up and test them for me. I agree, doing an impedence check probably isn't enough in this case.

Truck runs fine with the factory injectors and factory maf.
I do need to address my exhaust leak though. I'll do a data log of how it runs with this stuff and send it to you. I'll also look at the a/f ratio, but you might see something I would miss.

Just you telling me that the maf seems to be working is huge information.
This tells me it is either one of the injectors dumping gas, the tune, or my work.

Im sure James knows his stuff, and when he says something is wrong, I bet he's right.

The injectors are new, but maybe they were dropped in shipping? One or two might be stuck partially open and dumping gas, fouling the cylinder(s), and then misfire city. This would also explain the gas in the oil.

As for what I did, Im confident I didn't miss anything. Tim was over helping, so he would have spotted anything I was doing wrong. When I wen't the catch can route I ended up with a couple of spare vacuum ports in the upper intake, so I plugged them with proper cap's. No issue there.

My moneys on an injector issue.

Once the injectors are tested, we will all know.

Thank you 4pointslow, you have been a massive help.

4pointslow, I was told there were 1.6 roller rockers installed before I purchased the truck. I can't confirm nor deny. My truck is running fine with all the stock stuff back in it, just no turbo pushing air in to the throttle body. I need to get that fixed.

And as far as James goes, Im still going to defend him. He can tune from a distance, but if there is something wrong with my junk, I can't expect him to tell me. Although, I will say, some hints as to what to look for sure would have been nice. Im sure glad you guys are here.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

what i am trying to figure out is why would the truck want to, or almost stall when we would put the maf back in, or me even blowing lightly into it. that i cant understand. it would run fine with it out in the open air.
as for don's leak, there is a small pinhole just past the wideban. nothing big. we were going to pull the drivers header off to see if there was a crack in the pipe and weld it up, but we were running out of time, and i didnt want to risk screwing anything up on his truck that would prevent him from using it like he needed to.

 

[Dono]

Tim, I'll take a stab at your question.
With the stock tune, the slot maf is not calibrated properly.

When you blow on the Maf, the computer senses increased airflow as the voltage from the maf changes. The computer then adds more gas to what it thinks is increased air flow. This actually stalls the motor by adding too much gas.

My injectors passed all flow tests today. So, the injectors are fine. The Maf appears to be fine.
The injectors have new O rings on them, and I know they seated well into the lower intake, its actually pretty easy on these motors, way easier than the 4.0 OHV.
My truck is running fine being returned to stock........

This isn't making much sense to me. Hopefully I hear from Dragmart with recommendations tomorrow.

 

[4pointslow]

datalog

Send me a datalog of it with the stock injectors etc, at idle just like the one you sent before. Also another one at 2000 rpm for a short time.

 

[Dono]

logs sent, thank you.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

ok, new thing to think about. now that the harness going to the maf is longer, is there any possible way you are loosing voltage or anything like that? kinda like a extension cord? its not as effective with a longer wire then it is with a shorter one? im shooting in the dark with this one.

 

[Dono]

ok, new thing to think about. now that the harness going to the maf is longer, is there any possible way you are loosing voltage or anything like that? kinda like a extension cord? its not as effective with a longer wire then it is with a shorter one? im shooting in the dark with this one.

I did think about this....
I used a heavier gauge wire than what was on the harness, and only cut and spliced 1 wire at a time to ensure I didn't get anything mixed up. Also, intake air temps read spot on, and the maf is responding. I would be extremely surprised if this is the issue, but I have been wrong before and I know with out a doubt I will be wrong again.

 

[4pointslow]

data log

OK, if I am right the logs you just sent are with the stock maf and stock injectors. Can you hook the turbo back up with the turbo maf and log that with the stock tune at idle and 2000, and then the last tune from James at Idle and 2000.
Also please send in email for quick reference the analog equations for the vacuum and wideband.

What I see with the last two datalogs is that the wideband is not pinned
at "20 something", that is good. It was closer to 14. No misfiring there. I do see that LTFT is adding about 20% fuel at Idle and only 5% at 2000 rpm, that would be indicative of a vacuum leak. Vacuum leaks effect idle more than 2000
If it was the other way around (fuel trim higher at 2000 than idle) it would be fuel starvation, inaccurate maf (sometimes dirty) or something like that.
Anyway a vacuum leak or unmetered air leak like the pcv system can be tuned out, you don't want to but it could be done. Not the problem you were having with the first datalog you sent me. So in other words the problem that looked like a misfire is gone. (maybe injectors). now we reinstall the turbo and maf and if it still looks like the last tune you sent then the injectors are the problem. If it looks like the first tune then it is in the turbo or maf set up.

 

[Dono]

Just to be clear, just turbo and slot Maf still using stock injectors?

edit....ok, I see what you are saying. I just didn't think the slot maf would be sending the same voltage to the computer as the stock maf.

It won't take me long to try this.

As to the vacuum leak, it could very well be the changes I made to the pcv valve setup.

I cut the ball out of the pcv valve, and routed the hose to a catch can along with the breather hose that went to the oil fill tube. When the stock stuff went back on, the line to the catch can was ran just after the stock maf. I think this would be correct, except unmetered air might be introduced to the motor from my scavenge pump oil return.
This will go back to the catch can and external filter when the turbo is re-installed.

 

[ahodges]

You can't have any crankcase vent going to atmosphere if you are also pulling vacuum on it the crankcase somewhere else. It has been recommended to me before to leave PCV valves in place and even add a 2nd to put more vacuum on the crankcase (especially when running boost). As long your set up doesn't have any vents on the valve covers routed to your intake then it shouldn't create a problem.

 

[Dono]

[MENTION=119708]ahodges[/MENTION]
I can't get vacuum, unless I run another line pre-turbo.
If I stick with the pcv valve and add a 1 way valve, there will be no way for the gasses to escape under boost. Ive researched this to death, and its another draw back to rear mount turbo's.

 

[Dono]

[MENTION=119708]ahodges[/MENTION]
I can't get vacuum, unless I run another line pre-turbo.
If I stick with the pcv valve and add a 1 way valve, there will be no way for the gasses to escape under boost. Ive researched this to death, and its another draw back to rear mount turbo's.

 

[ahodges]

ahh.. I didn't think of that. I forgot all my lines are tied in before the supercharger. Did you forgo the power brakes then too? Or do you have a vacuum pump for that?

 

[Dono]

ahh.. I didn't think of that. I forgot all my lines are tied in before the supercharger. Did you forgo the power brakes then too? Or do you have a vacuum pump for that?

The power brakes have a 1 way check valve going in to the brake booster, and there is still vacuum unless I'm under boost. The big black circle brake booster keeps some vacuum for the brakes. Also, If I'm under boost, I won't be having my foot on the brake.

 

[Dono]

[MENTION=81804]4pointslow[/MENTION]
check your email.
Im headed back to the office, and have picked up my injectors. I'll scan and post the results. They did pass all tests.

 

[CDW6212R]

... As to the vacuum leak, it could very well be the changes I made to the pcv valve setup.

I cut the ball out of the pcv valve, and routed the hose to a catch can along with the breather hose that went to the oil fill tube. When the stock stuff went back on, the line to the catch can was ran just after the stock maf. I think this would be correct, except unmetered air might be introduced to the motor from my scavenge pump oil return.
This will go back to the catch can and external filter when the turbo is re-installed.

Run the datalog as 4pointslow. If things look to be better, than continue with the big injectors and all will be fine.

If the engine still doesn't seem right by the datalogs or how it runs, try swapping a normal PCV in place of the "high flow" one you made. If that were to improve things, then I'd say the amount of air going through the PCV valve is affecting the tune etc.