My new 347

Dono · May 4, 2017

Remember how I said previously to just clearance the TW170 heads to fit torquemonster headers? DON'T.
Water passages are Very close. Where that dark spot is, it only took a bit of pressure with a drill bit to blow thru to the water passage, and the water passage is not just one spot, its all along the outside of the head.
This creates a new problem for us that have aftermarket heads using torquemonster headers.

So, once the head is fixed (I'm having the other <Drivers side> head sonic tested also where I clearanced the head for the flange just to be safe) I will probably be making a trip to a fabricator with the motor, headers, and upper intake to have the headers and egr tube modified. Tim, this will probably be Sandale.

I'm making good use of the engine cradle Tim made for me.

vroomzoomboom · May 4, 2017

dug in my thread and found this picture. i wounder if you went too far for clearance. i know mine, you can probably fit a sheet of paper between the header and head. wished i could remember just how much i took off. then again, my heads and yours are different part numbers as well, so that to might be all the difference in the world.
i dont think you'll go wrong with sandale either (for those that are wondering what sandale is, its the foose design for us here in manitoba). i also wanna say ask them what a set of custom larger tube headers would cost for them to make, but i know it would be in the 1500 range or more.
as for the cradle, good thing i never threw it out. has been sitting unfinished for over a year. just not too proud of the "welding" job i did on it lol

Dono · May 5, 2017

I did go to far, but on that side you still could not fit a piece of paper in between the header and head. That being said, I did have header wrap on. They are going to try cutting the header wrap off and try to make the header fit. There is still a good depression in the head after the welding was done, so here's hoping.
I'm just letting the machinist's assembly guy look at it and try to make it fit. He was the one that suggested Sandale if he can't comfortably make the header work.

I think this is a blessing in disguise, as I was really uncomfortable with the tight clearance on the torque converter.
<Begin rant>
I feel like I'm the idiot fighting everyone whose job it is to know, trying to get this thing in tolerance. I just kept hearing "Just run it, and don't worry about it". I guess I must see the world differently than others, as I saw real risk of the torque converter pushing on the flex plate. If the torque converter is pushing on the flex plate, the thrust bearing is getting un-necessary pressure. Seems simple to me, but not to others in the business. Maybe I'm wrong, but I still expect that Torque converter to flex plate spacing to be extremely close to being within specifications that are set out by the manufacturer. In my case, 1/32 (Spec is a minimum of 4/32") of ballooning of the TC and there would be pressure on the thrust bearing. Thats it, thats all. Why is that so difficult to understand??
<End rant>

Tim, Brazier Race and Machine was impressed with the stand. They only see wood ones.

vroomzoomboom · May 5, 2017

Dono said:
I feel like I'm the idiot fighting everyone whose job it is to know, trying to get this thing in tolerance. I just kept hearing "Just run it, and don't worry about it". I guess I must see the world differently than others, as I saw real risk of the torque converter pushing on the flex plate. If the torque converter is pushing on the flex plate, the thrust bearing is getting un-necessary pressure. Seems simple to me, but not to others in the business. Maybe I'm wrong, but I still expect that Torque converter to flex plate spacing to be extremely close to being within specifications that are set out by the manufacturer. In my case, 1/32 (Spec is a minimum of 4/32") of ballooning of the TC and there would be pressure on the thrust bearing. Thats it, thats all. Why is that so difficult to understand??

sure. because if it screws up, its not them paying for the damage. now if you turned around, said something like give it to me in writing. if it tares itself apart, you will cover all costs including paying me to r&r it right down the the beer i will drink doing it, then i would like to see their answer

4pointslow · May 5, 2017

Quote of the day:
if it tares itself apart, you will cover all costs including paying me to r&r it right down the the beer i will drink doing it

LOL, that is awesome!
So the agony of trying to find parts for an Explorer has led to this. Because we can not just buy stuff that just fits we have to customize things along the way.
A lot of things going wrong during the process, but you are getting them all worked out now.
You attention to detail and not letting others tell you to "just run it" will have you overcome all this.
In a matter of time it will be up and running and better than before!

Dono · May 5, 2017

Makes my eye twitch.
I think on this torque converter thing, no one wants to touch it because there isn't really any money in it for them to do it. That's the only reason I can think of.

It was funny that you talked about getting a letter in writing. That is kinda how my conversation went about "Who is going to pay if the thrust bearing goes out again because you told me that there is no issue?"

And better than before is just about being reliable now. I'm going to keep boost at waste gate spring pressure (6 lbs). Once its tuned and working great, I'll introduce water/meth and see if I can get a couple more degree's of timing added. Then, I might try upping the boost slightly. lol

shucker1 · May 6, 2017

Dono said:
In my case, 1/32 (Spec is a minimum of 4/32") of ballooning of the TC and there would be pressure on the thrust bearing.

1\32 = .031 we know that.
4\32 = .125 we know that.

Big difference. Now include thermal growth of crankshaft and thermal growth of transmission input shaft and we get even tighter.

What's normal crankshaft thrust clearance? .010 Max? (Too lazy to get my books out)

Perhaps find a custom fabrication shop that can water jet cut a thicker separator plate between the engine and transmission to get the clearance back?

I know it's expensive but with all of the hell you have been through it might be worth it.

My company truck is in the shop right now so I don't have my micrometers to tell you how thick mine is.

Dono · May 17, 2017

Referencing this post on my torque converter:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/my-new-347.427497/page-23#post-3607154

measuring with a flat blade across the bell housing and then measuring from from the flat blade to TC

TC pilot spec is 1/8 inch doing this. I now have .093 ( way closer to 1/8 inch than I had).
TC to flex mount is now 1 inch. That's exactly the spec I read.

I think this should do it.

TCS was extremely concerned about shortening the torque converter. When they received it and checked it out, it was dead on spec.
They were concerned that if this TC goes in to anything else, there will be a different issue. That and changing sizes messes with the internals of the TC.
They ended up taking 1/16 of an inch out. Not as much as I wanted, but it will give more room. It looks like they shortened the pilot slightly more also.

TCS performed the work for me free of charge, Which is always appreciated.

Josh P · May 17, 2017

Any plans to take it to the track when you get it finished?

Dono · May 17, 2017

Josh P said:
Any plans to take it to the track when you get it finished?

Ummmm... No

errrr,.........maybe

Maybe under a low boost condition when I'm absolutely sure I have absolutely no detonation. I can't keep breaking ****.

Right now, I just want my daily driver back. Being down a vehicle is slowly adding more stress to my family members.

Dono · May 24, 2017

I had some friends show up in their modified Jeeps/4 Runner to go rock climbing on the Canadian Shield. I opted out of going with them to work around the house and get my motor put together. They over night at my place going to/from the location. And, as luck would have it, cold and rainy. They camped 2 nights and bugged out. The rain gives great traction on the rocks, but camping in the cold and rain isn't much fun. So, I worked happily away at putting my motor back together and in its engine bay while they were beating the crap out of their vehicles.

This time when priming the oil pump/galleys I added my oil pressure gauge in the mix to make sure I was seeing pressure with the drill. 50 lbs. I'm going to call that good news.

I didn't have much luck getting the motor past that hard AC line this time. It was super easy last time. Anyway, the compressor slid down from where I has it strapped, and suddenly the tell tale hissing <Insert swear words of your choice here>.At least it was that red-tek Freon replacement so it wasn't toxic to anyone or anything.
Tim to the rescue again. His dad dropped off a replacement for me the next morning. Thanks Tim (and Dad)!

Tonight, the front dress and rad wen't in. Then coolant. I really needed to know if the coolant was going to leak out as fast as I could pour it in. And, silence! All that could be heard was the sound of my feet on the ground doing the happy dance, Not pressure tested, but so far so good.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll get some more done.

vroomzoomboom · May 24, 2017

just dont booger that one up! its the last one we have lo!

4pointslow · May 24, 2017

Yes!!!! It is going back together!!!!
So happy for you, keep the posts coming!
Good luck to you on the rest of the install!

Dono · May 30, 2017

It Lives! It Lives!!

Fired right up, almost like I had done this before. lol

Coolant system pressure checked good.
No weird noises.
At hot idle, there was about 35psi oil pressure, that's good.
Once up to temp, vacuum was 18 (Its 22 during warmup with higher idle) That's good.

Ran er up to temp, played with the throttle a bit, shut er down and changed the oil and filter.
Oil looked good. Almost imperceptible swirls in the oil (I'm told that's normal on fresh engine start) and almost nothing at all on the magnetic oil drain plug.

I still need to install the axles, inner fenders, and hood before I can go for a drive. I should be able to get that done tomorrow (As long as the crisis of the moment doesn't get in the way).

Maybe I'll get to drive the poor old girl (sure doesn't sound like a poor old girl though) to work on Wednesday.

delexploder · May 30, 2017

that's great news

Josh P · May 30, 2017

Post a video of the maiden voyage.

4pointslow · May 30, 2017

Congratulations on getting her together again!
You just made my morning, pictures or videos please.
How did the welds look on the heads? Could you even see them?

Dono · May 30, 2017

The welds looked really good. It looks like he kinda layered the puddles on (Coming from a non welder).
The welder sill left recesses in the heads so I would have a fighting chance of installing the headers without completely crushing them. I should have taken pics.

I didn't use break in oil on any of the other builds, but am on this one. I'm not sure that it really matters with a hydraulic cam, but I guess anything that can help seat the rings is a good thing. It kinda hurt draining fresh expensive oil and pouring in new expensive oil. I think the oil should stay in there for a few thousand miles. I wonder if I could go straight synthetic after that?

CDW6212R · May 30, 2017

Good news is appreciated, thanks. Break in oil is available I've seen lately, it has less additives and is for helping to seat the rings mostly. Woody and most engine builders now claim it doesn't take long for ring seating, the way they stone/prep the cylinders. I don't know about that for sure, but I'd still try to go 1000 miles before going to synthetic.

Dono · June 1, 2017

No video, but its all great news.
Before driving it to work, figured I better go for a drive first. so, off for gas I go.

Way more low end torque. the torque converter is behaving more like a higher stall converter now, that's good. Before, it justcseemed to stall very quickly (to quickly).

no leaks, and no other bad things happening. I'll start putting on a few mile and continue the logging/tuning.
I worked a bit tonight at the difficult warm start issue I've always had. I think I'm pretty close now.

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