1999 Mounty 5.0 aka My Great Bad Idea

[97Sandbox]

I'd clean and reuse, real clean with black rtv on the joints

If it didn't look like that had already been done once before, I probably would. At this point there isn't much gasket left, it was a lot of rtv already and I sliced all that pretty bad with the razor. I agree that would've been preferable to reuse if I hadn't butchered it yesterday. At least now I know for next time!

 

[allmyEXes]

If the pan gasket is metal reinforced, I would think that the Dremel type tool would be best to cut the pan gasket. Without going back and re-reading the thread, I know that someone said cut 90% of the way through it the finish with a razor or utility knife.
I'm close to doing the same thing with my timing cover and have been contemplating what to do during the timing cover installation. The cover is going to have to be forced down against the replacement piece of pan gasket, crank seal properly aligned, dowels lined up and get all of this back on to the block without smearing wet RTV all over everything. All of you 5.0 pros can weigh in and I haven't done this procedure in many years but something keeps telling me that I should loosen and or remove all of the oil pan bolts except the very back two but leave them loose so that the front of the oil pan can be dropped down a half of an inch or more to get the timing cover to go on straight and square with the first try. Although it is a bit time consuming and inconvenient, to do this, it should make the timing cover replacement go faster and smoother. I may be overthinking it, but I'm strongly considering loosening up the pan, If it will come a loose clean.

 

[97Sandbox]

I did end up using a Dremel wheel on a die grinder. One side came out clean, but the other I nicked the pan slightly. I don't think it's anything the RTV can't fill.

I'm only planning to put RTV at the bottom corners and possibly the corners on either side of the crankshaft U. Hopefully that doesn't make a huge mess. The dowels stock into the cover more than the block, so I think I put dowels and TC cover gasket on the cover, then push all of that down onto the pan gasket chunk and RTV.

If you loosen the whole pan, that's going to open up a gap that's very hard to clean. Not saying it can't be done, but sounds miserable and like an opportunity to create new leak paths.

Got my new timing set on last night!

Couldn't find my gasket maker, so I need to pick up a new tube today. I block sanded all the machined surfaces of the cover and cleaned all the tapped treads and fasteners too. A quick wipe with acetone and the cover will be ready to reinstall.

 

[allmyEXes]

@97Sandbox Where is the blue oil pan gasket from?

 

[97Sandbox]

It's from the Felpro full gasket kit from Rock auto which came recommend to me by 410. I cracked open the set yesterday and everything looks like good quality.

Here's the trimmed down section I'll use under the TC:

 

[allmyEXes]

@97Sandbox I see now. The metal pieces that I see are from the old gasket laying on top of the new one to mark where to cut. I wondered why the new gasket was bare at the TC edge.
I need to be working on mine. I got the last critical part this past Friday from a knowledgeable and veteran member. Thanks, JF ! Months back I removed the Intermediate steering shaft from the 5.0 Mountaineer to fix my Wife's driver, so that left my MM immobile. As soon as my wife is well enough to be by herself for a few hours, I will go install it. Then I can move the vehicle 100 ft closer to the tools.
I miss driving the 5.0. Average people in their Toyotas are surprised that the 4000 pounds truck will get up and go quickly when necessary.

 

[97Sandbox]

Yes, I was just showing how I cut the new gasket. Steel pieces were what I cut off the old one.

Hope I can someday say my Mounty goes quickly haha!

 

[97Sandbox]

Timing cover is back on! Balancer too for that matter.

Hey, @410Fortune, is the ~3" red "o ring" in the Felpro gasket set for the oil filter extension? The kit doesn't exactly say what's what. If so, it seems like I should replace it now before I put more back and access gets worse.

 

[410Fortune]

Yes should be for the filter mount to block

Nice work!

 

[97Sandbox]

Awesome, thanks! I figured you knew your way through this gasket kit by heart.

I don't have a leak at the filter mount, but I can't imagine the gasket is in good shape after 24 years. It'd be a real pain to get to if it stared leaking after the water pump and P/S pump are back in.

 

[410Fortune]

I’m not sure I would disturb the oil filter mount if you do not need to. I’m questioning that o ring I think the one our explorer uses is much smaller that maybe for a mustang or something

It’s early before coffee hahaha

 

[97Sandbox]

Hmm okay. There is another, smaller, black o-ring in the kit that I'm not sure what it's for. It's in a bag with the EGR valve gasket and a couple of others -- would that be it?

Without being sure I have the right replacement, I agree it'd be better to leave the current gasket undisturbed.

 

[410Fortune]

It’s a small diameter o ring maybe 1/8”’around and it’s about 3” in diameter or the same size as the oil filter mounting surface

I have pics on my computer if this o ring but I am not at home

 

[97Sandbox]

Is the rubber a circular cross section, or square? The other o-ring in the kit is much smaller than what you're describing.

 

[97Sandbox]

Rough night last night.

I'm waiting to get my water pump fasteners re-plated before putting the new pump on, so I started thinking about what's next on the Mounty. I decided to start removing an exhaust manifold because I expected I'd need the torch and wouldn't want to put too much heat into the head after the valve cover and intake manifold gaskets are replaced. Unfortunately, the MAP torch and penetrant were not enough -- the first stud snapped right off. I'm not sure if I have the ambition to keep trying the other fasteners, or just leave things as they are and mess with the manifolds when the engine is out someday. The problem with that is there was already a noticeable exhaust leak coming from the right manifold and I don't think the missing nut will help close any gaps.

Not wanting to deal with the exhaust, I moved onto the lower intake manifold. After some busted knuckles, I got the heater hoses off and didn't have any trouble pulling the fuel rails. Then it came time to remove the intake manifold studs and it was a repeat of the exhaust manifold. I was able to slowly break loose the front two studs, but I could feel they weren't happy. One I was able to get out, but the other snapped off -- I wonder if the whole time it felt like the stud was turning, it was actually yielding. Then the rear stud broke off too. I wasn't able to get good enough access to try the bolt on the rear right corner (socket kept slipping off).

Am I missing something, or just unlucky? At this point, I'm almost thinking I just go and break all the fasteners so I can pull off the exhaust/intake manifolds and start welding nuts to what's left sticking out. That sounds like a very unpleasant time though haha.

 

[410Fortune]

Not fun
You need a torch, map gas maybe not enough here
The stupid lower intake
Bolts are open to atmosphere at their tips, the two front most and the two rear most, this causes mass corrosion and they fuse themselves to the engine block. A torch with more heat is the only way to get them out

The good news here is with the intake off the studs will be 1” long for you to work with
Similar with exhaust manifold, once the manifold is removed the studs are usually 1/2” long or so and you can get them with a torch/welder/ vise grips

 

[97Sandbox]

I figured that might be the case. I don't have an acetylene torch setup currently and I'd love to work with what I have if I can. Seeing how corroded the stuck bolts/studs are, I don't think it'd be smart to reuse them anyway -- do you think the heat from welding nuts on has a decent chance of shocking rusted threads loose, or is acetylene the only way to go?

Also, is there a good source for replacement studs? I see Rockauto only has bolt kits

 

[410Fortune]

I use bolts
For the two front intake studs that need a double post for holding the coil pack tripod i simple weld a bolt upside down on the bottom bolt

Or you can use threaded rod

I think a torch is basically required
Welding a nut on I have never had good luck with, however welding a piece of flat stock on has worked for me many many times. Welding on a nut it is very hard to get enough weld on the tip of the broken stud. Using a piece of flat stock allows you to get a larger hole and weld all the way around the stud, more heat, more penetration.

 

[97Sandbox]

Made one last attempt on the rear right lower intake bolt last night and rounded off the head. At least I didn't snap it off I guess? The auto trans dip tick tube makes it hard to get a clear shot at that bolt.

Time for the welder.

 

[97Sandbox]

Welder was no help. Tried welding a bigger nut into the bolt head and it just sheared off. Even with trans dip stick tube bent back, I could only weld maybe halfway around the nut.

After that I tried building a column of weld beads to have something to grab with vise grips but everything fell apart as I turned the vise grips.

Finally I decided to just grind off all the weld and grind the bolt head back to the surface of the intake manifold, but I burned through the last cutting wheel I had for my die grinder before I got there. Maybe I'll try to squeeze the angle grinder in tomorrow, but I don't think there will be room to cut without damaging the intake manifold or valve cover in the process.

Even if I had one, I wouldn't think I could use an acetylene torch on this bolt either -- I don't see how you'd avoid burning the firewall.