4 Link or Radius arm/Front

[RockRanger]

Moving the upper link to the lower link would be possible however the tabs on the axle might be welded at the wrong angle. To do the radius arm style you need to use bushings at the axle ( i think you said you were anyway). Radius arms will continue to eat bushings due to the bind in the setup. I think three link is better. Not sure how soon you plan to start but I bet you will be surprised how well 90ranajo setup is going to work. Here is my my three link flexed out. I still had about 1-2" of up travel and about 3" of down. My truck will fit in my garage that has a standard 7' door. I could also go to 37's and still fit.

 

[rookieshooter]

OK, just got off the phone with Ballistic concerning my front suspension and told him that I want a 4 link but might make it so an upcoming radius arm could be done.
He knew exactly what I was talking about and suggested the same thing I was thinking. Do the bottom first then the top. The bottom will stay the same no matter what. Then think how to do top using the upper arm or making another arm if need be to change over to radius arm.
Also asked him about the wall thickness for top. He said if I keep the same dia. as the bottom which is 1.75 x .250" wall that I could use 1.75 x .125" wall. Or he advised if I go smaller diameter which I like because i need all the room I can find for the top, to use 1.50 dia. x .250. Going with the smaller dia. but same wall. Plus my stick welder just loves 1/4" stuff.

 

[rookieshooter]

Nice flex indeed. Where do you have your top link connected to?

 

[RockRanger]

Inside the driver frame rail between the fuel filter and tcase. If I remember right my upper is 34" long and my lowers are about 36". My upper is 1.75x .120 tubing. lowers are 2" square. I will try to get better pictures this weekend and post them up. Once figured it out it is not that hard. Not sure how it will clear your V8 though.

 

[james t]

I guess i dont understand (my reading comprehension sucks sometimes) but explain why you want to be able to "swap" from links to radius?

 

[rookieshooter]

I guess i dont understand (my reading comprehension sucks sometimes) but explain why you want to be able to "swap" from links to radius?

Since in theory it sounds so simple to do and if the 4 link for some unkown reason does not seem to do right (lack of experience on my part with front 4 links) it seems so simple to convert to radius arm. Plus I think it would be just cool to actually get a seat of the pants feeling for both. OK, I know, I have just too much time on my hands Now also enter this into the equation, I do not have a sway bar either. The front coils really take care of that department. This might have to do with so much weight that i have removed from the front of the truck also. Like no AC, aluminum manifold, aluminum heads, that alone removed 50 lbs from cast iron heads, tubes exhaust, skined hood which only weighs a few pounds, tubed doors or when I run doors you can pick them up with 2 fingers, and vinyl windows. Now this was a lot of weight that used to be high. Oops, chopped top. So the COG is lower. So I'm wondering how would a 4 link corner? Does a radius arm do better, with the binding might do better in that category.

 

[rookieshooter]

Inside the driver frame rail between the fuel filter and tcase. If I remember right my upper is 34" long and my lowers are about 36". My upper is 1.75x .120 tubing. lowers are 2" square. I will try to get better pictures this weekend and post them up. Once figured it out it is not that hard. Not sure how it will clear your V8 though.

Thanks RockRanger. Room is the whole problem. On my radius arm rear suspension with the outboard arms and coilovers I can do a trail and then pull the pin and go back on same trail and WOW! what a difference. Where the first run one rear wheel would lift of the ground and then by pulling pin, both tires on ground. I learned quit a bit about radius arms suspensions doing hours upon hours of fabbing one up and changing this and that after some trails.

 

[RockRanger]

I do not run a sway bar. It leans a bit because the jeep springs are well on the soft side for the weight.

 

[redranger4.0]

A quarter inch wall upper link is overkill. The only reason why we run thick wall tubing on the lower links is for rock rash and high centering the link over a rock. The upper link doesn't see this type of abuse so almost all of the stresses on it is either compression or tension. So I would just run 1/8" wall for the upper(s). Read over some of the SAS thread here and maybe other forums.
Posted via Mobile Device

Im running it like that cause in the end it wasnt that much more money and I can use any of the 3 links in any spot.

 

[rookieshooter]

Im running it like that cause in the end it wasnt that much more money and I can use any of the 3 links in any spot.

That's a good idea. If I do the radius arm one also, I have some short pieces of 1.75 x .250 wall left over from my last radius arm build. So I know about climbing over rocks.
Their too short for the bottom, but may just work fine for the top.

Just added: top meaning on a radius arm not 4 link. they're too short for a top link on a 4 link. But could be possibly used if I want to switch to radius arm. Just make a short arm with it's own bushing and joint.

 

[Turdle]

Just throwing this into the radius arm pile--

Instead of a wristed arm, how about this?

Dead Link Removed

Dead Link Removed

Dead Link Removed

Dead Link Removed

Wristed axle tube?

 

[FROADER]

Just throwing this into the radius arm pile--

Instead of a wristed arm, how about this?

Wristed axle tube?

As for the the wristed housing neat idea but I bet a wristed arm would get you close to if not the same amount of travel and can be done for alot less then 400 bucks.

I agree.

 

[Turdle]

Yes, but there must be an issue in the wristed arm set up that this is an attempt to resolve? Looks like a lot of effort--

Equal flex is nice, but will it have equal strength and street manners?

I am just asking. I have no clue. But I would like to get things as close to correct for me in my first attempt.

 

[FROADER]

JT, you're thinking about it too much.

If there is any issue about the wristed arm it's the bushing at the frame end. This can be fixed with johnny (super flex) joints or heims. Which either way will still be cheaper than this axle. Some will say the issue is that fact that the wristed arm lets the suspension travel in more of an arc than it should. Well, unless you build a linked suspension completely perfect, it's going to arc more than you really want it to. The wristed arm when "pinned" is just like not having a wristed arm, so it's more solid. I don't have the pin for my wristed axle and it (to me) drives fine on the street. But I've been driving lifted trucks with no sway bars for over 15 years now.

Next weekend I'll give you a ride in the explorer on the street to my comfort level the way it is, (you coming from a street background will not like it... ). Then you drive it to your comfort level and you'll see what I am talking about. This thing (no matter what anyone says) will out corner some cars on the road.

 

[dkchrist]

I wonder how they take care of steering issues as the knuckle turns. That seems like a bad idea.

 

[rookieshooter]

Now I don't want to sound like I'm some suspension guru, because I'm not. All my linked whether 4 or Radius arm has been limited to rear suspension only. Drag cars, some dirt Late models and my own 4x4s. With that said. The reason the vast majority of people run bushings in radius arm suspension just like I got in my rear, is not because their cheaper, but the way their designed.

Let's look at the pic above. It has a Ballistic joint in one of the link brackets. The center line of the bore is naturally parallel with the axle. The sides are 90 deg. or perpendicular to the axle.

The joint is designed for rotational, not lateral loads. This joint is maxed out about 20 deg. from it's perpendicular plane in the first pic. And it is now steel to steel. Now remember were talking radius arm not 4 link in my example. The sides are not hitting the side brackets but the built in spacers on each side. A none wristed radius arm acts like a sway bar and puts tremendous pressure on the sides of the bushings/joint. But the bushing has rubber at it's mating surface with the brackets cushioning the side or lateral loads and the has a steel sleeve that can also move inside the rubber/poly bushing. Now this may eat up the bushings but it's better then having steel to steel contact as you would with heims or joints which may even limit the articulation less then steel bushings with rubber/poly inserts. Not counting that you may just completely destroy the joint/heim.
Now with a true 4 link the joints normaly don't undergo such radical angles.

I got to admit this is a fun thread and a lot of different opinions just like I read on Pirate and many others regarding link vs radius arm suspension.

Got to admit that my rear outboard radius arm suspension in the locked mode with no sway bars will also out handle some cars thru the turns. But it's not worth a crap on trails untill I un-pin one side.

 

[DB_1]

I wonder how they take care of steering issues as the knuckle turns. That seems like a bad idea.

It doesn't rotate enough to affect the steering.