How to: Another way-44 outers on the 35 TTB

[Happy Jack]

Well this is what I have so far.

http://www.mappyjack.com/Dana44.htm

Basicly I used the 35 TTB knuckle. The 75 up GM brakes. And the 76-86 Bronco hub and rotor.

(Linked site is dead, but photos of this mod start at post #35.)

 

[FROADER]

Nicely done, looks good.

 

[mrboyle]

Nice write up. Thanks for the info.

 

[SteveG3]

I like it. Clean and relatively simple. I like that it used a lot of off-the-shelf parts and didn't require a bunch of machining and custom work.

I worry about the way I've seen people complete the swap as they leave a lot of room for error. The way you've done it, the steering knuckle stays in the stock location & as a result the axle shaft does too.

One question: With the added width of the rear axle, what are you doing to match the front and rear track width?

Thanks for the post!

 

[Bruces expo]

Good Write up Thats Good To Know How To Do It Know

 

[SteveG3]

BTW: I'm also installing F150 parts on an Explorer, but I'm using a kit that allows me to instal a complete full width D44 TTB with bolt on parts.

My way is costing a lot more money though....

 

[Happy Jack]

Thanks guys. It's not complete but should be soon. I plan on using a 1/2 ton master cylinder to handle the brakes. As soon as I get the other side done I'll measure the front track. Just figured to leave the front a little narrower than the rear. I have a bunch more pictures to post and part numbers. Hope to get those up sometime this week. And brake line info.

Jr. is a 1988 BroncoII. I bought it as a 2wd. Figured no need to buy stuff I didn't need. Has the 2.9 and I pulled the A4LD and replaced it with a C-5 built to C-4 v-8 specs. I bought Toms last Doubler t-case and a 1354 from a 93 Mazda B3000. 6" Skyjacker suspension with the long arms and rear spring packs. Cut the shock towers off the front buckets and installed the F-series shock tower for a longer front shock. And of course the 93 Explorer front axle.

Who dose the full width 44TTB? I'd really like to see it.

 

[sn0border88]

curious as to why you are going with a full width d44ttb and not a solid d44

 

[410Fortune]

Sounds like hes using the Autofab Dana 44 TTB kit.
Long travel 4x4 with AutoFab legendary handling and strength, seriously Autofab TTB kits from the base version to the race version perform awesome.
John at Autofab is now making a complete bolt on kit that installs a modified Dana 44 ttb under your Dana 28 or 35 equipped truck. This gives you 8" width overall and long travel 4x4 suspension with only mild modifications to the D44 beam and uses all stock parts aside from whats in the kit.

Solid axle is not for everyone.

 

[Happy Jack]

I'll have to look it up and see what they do. Thanks for the info.

 

[FireZapper]

Is there a snap ring or "C" clip on the outer shaft? Whats to keep it in place?

 

[Happy Jack]

I was concerned about this also. I had planned on using the GM 44 outer shafts. I have in the past had to use something to move the axle shaft out board to install a snap ring or c-clip. This would not have been a big concern on the passangers side as I am using an internal spring in the tube between the inner and out shaft on the passangers side. This pushes the outer shaft out and the inner shaft in and I did not install the c-clip on the end of the axle in the front differential. This lets me remove all the front axle shafts with out removing the front third member.

When I came to the axle shaft part of the conversion I noticed there was a difference in the distance from the center of the u-joint to the seal mounting surface on the shafts I had. The Dana 35 and 44 TTB were longer than the GM straight axle 44. I even took my modified 35 knuckles and installed the 35 outer shaft and spindle and measured from the back of the knuckle to the edge of the u-joint bore. Then did the same with the 44 TTB and 44 GM outer shaft and GM spindle. I came up with, as close as I could measure, 2 47/64" for both 35 and 44 TTB and 2 39/64" for the GM 44.

I knew the 44 TTB outer shaft was not long enough to put a c-clip or snap ring on the end of the axle. But it measured the same as the stock 35 so I wanted to use it and keep u-joint location as close to stock as possible. I had been in contact with Rick on this and he said he did not run a snap ring or c-clip on the end of the shafts in his 44 front axle. I decided to assemble and see if I needed something to keep the axle in place. I found that one of my 44 TTB outer axle shaft had internal threads in the hole in the end of the shaft. So I could use a bolt and washer in the end of the shaft to keep the axle out board in the splines of the lock out if needed.

We put a new third member in the front with 4.11's and a Detroit locker. When we installed every thing on the drivers side I found that there was not a lot of in/out movement of the axle shaft. I could move the axle out board very little. We locked in the lock out and spun the axle while turning the knuckle from lock to lock and found no binding. I don't know if the Detriot Locker is different or if thats just how things go together. But the axle shaft will not move in in/out more than 1/16" and I can see no need for anything to retain the drivers side front axle. The axle shaft cannot move inboard enough to have less than full contact with the lockout.

Kind of hard to explain. If I was unclear on anything please let me know.

 

[FireZapper]

Thanks for the info.

Any trail time yet?

I'm going to cut and turn the beams as well as 5x5.5 outers. Thats why I'm concerned about the shaft moving.

 

[Happy Jack]

Trail time will I hope be this summer. I have a full size 96 Bronco that I plan to take to Utah next month. When I get back from that I hope to have the funds to finish Jr. and hope to have it in Colorado late July and early August.

 

[Happy Jack]

I updated my web page with more pic's, part numbers and some editing. It is at: http://www.mappyjack.com/Dana44.htm

 

[410Fortune]

Very nice
Hey the spring I run in my slip yoke is REALLY similar to yours, I have tried alot of different rates and sizes in there. the one I am using is about 3" long, VERY STIFF for its size (given the selection at the hardware place) and about 1-1/2" in dia. It works well.
I have to push pretty firm on the end of the stub shaft coming through the spindle to get it to compress.
Has been like this for about 2 years now with no problems. EXCEPT I do wear out the star washer that rides with the C clip on the end of the shaft (dana 35 still). I will replace that sucker about every 2 years.

I would like to know if you gained any track width with the new D44 snouts and brake setup over the old D35 outers? Do the D44 TTB axleshafts take this into account?
What I am getting at is the D44 TTB knuckles on the end of th ebeam seem like it would have the same distance for the TTB axle shafts.
Where as your setup seems like it would pull the TTB axleshafts out a bit??? Do both hubs engage, no binding in the TTB?

 

[Happy Jack]

With the internal spring I do not run anything on the end of the axle shaft with this conversion. The spring pushes the passangers side 44 TTB outer shaft to where it is flush with the Warn lock out. But one of my 44 TTB outer shafts is threaded and if you want you can place a washer on the end of the axle shaft and secure it with a short bolt to make sure the shaft will not move inboard. As the axle shaft is locked into that inner gear of the Warn lock out there would be no wear that would take place as the axle, gear and washer would all turn together. Just need to locate the 44 TTB outer shafts with threaded holes. The drivers side beam has the third member and with my Detroit Locker every thing fits together snug. The seals are snug and seal well and there is no way the axle can move inboard. I checked both sides by turning the rotor with the lock outs locked in and moved the steering knuckle from lock to lock and there was no binding.

Before I put this together I put the 35 spindle back on one of the modified 35 knuckles and slipped the 35 outer shaft in. I measured from the back of the knuckle to the edge of the u-joint bore. I then put the GM 44 spindle on another modified 35 knuckle and tried the GM 44 outer shaft and the TTB 44 outer shaft and measured. The 44 TTB outer shaft measured the same as the 35. The GM 44 was shorter and would have moved the u-joint outboard aprox. 1/8 of an inch. That is why I decided to go with the 44 TTB outer shafts. With the 44 TTB outer axle shafts the outer axle u-joints will be at the same place.

I use the 35 TTB steering knuckle and just cut the cailper ears off and have it drilled for the 6 bolt pattern. That way I don't have to worry about any difference between the 44 TTB knuckle and the 35 TTB knuckle.

My alignment is really off and difficult to measure right now. I did take the spare GM 44 spindle and 44 TTB rotor and hub assy and put it next to an old 35 TTB spindle and rotor. The 44 measured 9/16 of an inch taller but I did not have a set of lock outs for the 35. So subtract the thickness of the lock out from the 9/16 and you get your measurement for wider track. I figured about 1/4 to 5/16 for the lock out and that gives me 1/4 to 5/16 wider on each side. So track would be 1/2 to 5/8's inch wider.

 

[410Fortune]

Excellent description! So the key is the correct outer stub shafts.
Every little bit of width helps

 

[Happy Jack]

Thanks for the kind words.

The width is not much. Kind of like adding wheel spacers or using wheels with a 1/4 inch less back spacing. If it is a concern you could always run wheels with a 1/4 inch additional back spacing to return the track to where it was.

Guess I need to get out some time and take a few more pic's and add something on the shorter u-joint "ear" lenth on the GM 44 outer shaft.

Thanks for all the questions they really help. Please ask more. If I have missed something I really want to know about it.

 

[410Fortune]

No you see I have 3" over stock track width built into my beams, then I have 3.75 offset on my rims. The extra width up front was one of the best performance mods for the tippy BII. The more track width I can get the happier I will be. My rig is wide and low = wheels better. I am planning a new set of beams with D44 outers, but using stock axle shaft components, so I was just curious how much wider this setup is then say the Kris way with full D44 knuckles.

I have alot of questions, but they could only be answered by getting under your new setup and looking