Justin is going twin turbo...

Well, I just ordered two Borg Warner S200 turbochargers for my Explorer. With the new install, I will be moving everything towards the front- so it will be a mid mount setup. I am also changing my air/air intercooler with an air/water intercooler and adding water injection. I am not adding the water injection to add more power with timing- it will just be a safety precaution for hot days.

Changing from the single to the twins will allow me to keep my quick spool, but support more power. It came down to either a single T70 or these twins, and I chose the twins. It will probably be a little while before I start fabrication because I am remodeling my house. But I hope to have it running and retuned by the end of the year.

 

[CDW6212R]

Thanks for the tips, I ordered most of what I'll need except the hoses and fittings. It's interesting that the full SS hose is cheaper than the lesser rubber/fabric hoses. I would select those if they were cheaper than the SS hose.

 

[rocket 5979]

I found it easier at the jegs site to use the categories on the left side of the screen. Go to "Fuel & Induction", and then go to "Fuel fittings, hose & lines". The jegs fittings are good quality and they do come in black. I used the polished aluminum version and they work well. I've used Russell, Aeroquip and summit but I like the Jegs fittings because of the way they go on the line; I thought they were cheaper? I just compared a -6 straight fitting and that wasn't the case. Heck, they're all good and you can't go wrong.

+1. I have always found it easier to search for parts on Jegs than on Summit. I cannot stand that cross reference type search function on Summit.

I could have sworn that the Jeg's brand fittings were cheaper than Russels or Earls. It has been a few months since my last round of AN fitting purchases so maybe I was mistaken.

 

[Jakee]

I'm not sure if this is cheaper but it's another option for you....http://www.racepartsolutions.com/products.asp?cat=118

I have to warn you - The fabric hoses are harder to get the O.D. fitting on.

 

[rocket 5979]

I'm not sure if this is cheaper but it's another option for you....http://www.racepartsolutions.com/products.asp?cat=118

I have to warn you - The fabric hoses are harder to get the O.D. fitting on.

Yeah at least the steel wires are stiff enough to put pressure on before bending. Well the exterior is nylon... Just thinking out loud but I wonder if there could be a way to make a little short tapered melting iron to fuse the ends of the nylon fibers together. Maybe even just roll a little sheet aluminum over the last 6" leaving just the last 1/8" exposed to just run a torch over for a sec to melt the nylon fibers together. I usually only work with either solid line or the SS braid, so if I ever mess with this nylon stuff I might have to give it a try.

 

[CDW6212R]

Thanks Jake, that's a good site for fittings with any angles needed, http://www.racepartsolutions.com/products.asp?cat=15.. They are a little less there also.

One last question about lines, how much less flexible are the -6 AN SS lines for making trans cooler lines? It wouldn't be good to have lines that have force sprung against the coolers or main hard lines etc. The lines should be free to move in any direction, not stressing any other parts. The nylon exterior hoses run about $6 per foot or more, and the SS lines can be had for under $4, some under $3 per foot.

 

[awdrocks]

Good luck on this build. BW turbos are nice.

A buddy is building a 92' AWD Talon (John Sephards old car), and I almost got him a BW for his turbo upgrade. We ended going with a Holset 35/40

 

[awdrocks]

Edit

 

[rocket 5979]

but finding space for piping is the big issue.

With a vehicle that has as much ground clearance as the Explorer finding space for the piping will not be a problem. The 5.0 Explorers have tons of room in the engine bay, underneath, and behind the front bumper. While things will get tight in certain areas it will not be even close to becoming a "big issue".

 

[Jakee]

The stainless line will bend well and will not cause you problems with the hose trying to go back straight. The good thing is the lines will actually learn where they're supposed to be.

For the Russell pro classic line, you can actually burn the nylon outer lining with a cig lighter in an attempt to keep it from fraying. That didn’t do any good for me though. I never figured out an easy way; just gave my forearms the biggest work out of my life. I think another reason why it’s harder is because you can’t put as much pressure on the line, as opposed to the stainless line, before the line wants’ to bend to one side or the other.

Do you guys realize we have majorly highjacked Justins thread? Sorry Justin, I hope you've learned something new.

 

[jah81592]

I am told the truck PCM's can only process 512g/sec, this is why many go SD. How do you get around this with a MAF that can read higher? I am really curious about the subject..

Justin,
I have been very busy lately but I will sum this up in hopefully without turning this thread south with unnecesary debate. Certain (if not all GM PCM's until lately) had a 512 grms/sec hard limit. But so does the EEC-v Cobra with a 64.9 #/min hard limit. There are ways around this by scaling certain areas and through proper tuning it can be gotten around.

Just two weeks ago I tuned a STS turbocharged corvette with twins. The meter was done at 525 hp and 575 torque-10# boost. We never hit the 512 gs/sec limit but what I did do is run out of meter range (which is similar to fords hard limit of 5V) maximum range in GM is 12000HZ(this has been raised on some of the newer processors). So now you will see if you don't run out of range in the meter the hard limit encoded in airflow can be worked around. This is common. Another example is the STS turbocharged Silverado I tuned - 565hp and 708 torque (14# boost), with no less than 500 torque from 2000 to 5000 rpm. The Silverado was running at 96% duty cycle in the hz section (again the limit in Ford would be around 4.8v respectively). The grams/sec were well below the 512 hard limit.

If you ever decide to perform this swap and would like a more one on one chat gimme a shout. You don't have anything to worry about. I never tune in speed density unless I have a customer who just has to have a SD tune. It is pointless. Driveability will suffer and having to have a seasonal tunes just plain..well-sucks!

I will be following this thread for updates. As far as the LSx tuning I do a BUNCH of it locally. I can't wait to see the outcome, this could be interesting.-j

 

[justin146]

I dont mind treads getting hijacked- at least it stayed with a performance theme

I wont be driving it it any time soon; I took it out yesterday and it sounds like I blew out what little exhaust manifold gasket the passengers side had left. I was planning on not starting on the construction until I got my shop finished, but I may have to at least get the headers installed..


James, I will be needing help with the Explorer's tuning and my LSx project. I have a 5.3 and S400 that is going into something It should be something different for sure...

 

[jah81592]

Gotcha! Will do. I am interested. I love LSx engines-j

 

[rocket 5979]

I love LSx engines-j

Me too. Though I am only starting to learn the in's and out's of tuning them.




Justin, as a person that has been used to tuning on Ford's for the last few years and only recently switched to also using HP Tuners for GM (earlier this week) I can say that the transition from understanding one and then moving to the other tuning platform wasn't nearly as tricky as I thought it would be. Obviously I am still coming up to speed on HP Tuners but was surprised by how much ground I was able to gain in just a few days. I guess what I am trying to say is that if you have a fairly solid understanding of how Ford tuning works in the SCT Advantage software it will REALLY help you out when moving to understanding GM stuff as well. The tuning principles remain the same but the application is a little different. GM stuff is turning out to be pretty fun. Of course it helps when you have a tuning mentor.

 

[jah81592]

I have thought about a 6.0L LS2 swap in my truck after realizing a modular swap will be too dang hard. Being the 4.0L "guy" & vendor I thought I would get severly flamed! It wouldn't be out of the question but I believe I want to keep it Ford. I need a wrecked F150 with a 351 and complete harness from a v-8 Explorer. Twins and a 408 cu.in v-8 wouldn't hurt either. Dreaming is fun but the economy is slow and projects are on indefinate hold from me or at least till we pick up. Justin why not go with a stroker/head/boost combo or install a 351W head,cam,boost combo. The power potential would be just as good.-j

I tuned a 408 with head/cam and 10# boost on a stang. The car put 627 hp through a C4 (which absorbs sh** tons of power). Still an interesting car. With the twin swap you are going to you would have zero lag and plenty go. In the end the money focused to the LSx swap could be put into an engine which would mount directly to your truck and tranny combo. Your electronics would work,etc. The only thing you would have to change would be lengthening the pipes from the manifolds and minor odds and ends for the dis swap (since the explorer never had a dis system).-j

 

[CDW6212R]

James, the Explorer PCM can run a 351W if a custom distributor(CMP) is made, plus the oil pan. Todd of RPS has done all of the hard work for his. The rub is how much trouble all of a bigger engine is. The custom headers, front dress(if not 302), and PCM etc, that makes a 302 so much better.

You can make any power that you want with a 302 based engine. A recent dyno sheet posted on SBF tech had a 375(ish) NA engine making 600HP at 6000rpm, and 720hp at 7000rpm, peak being near 7200. That's the high end stuff, but with the right parts a 347 can easily make that with decent boost.

The key is having an air charge low enough to reach a good boost level. I don't want a "hot" 6psi supercharger, I want a "warm" 8psi boost, inlet air charge. If that can be done, then 15psi etc. should be at the limit of the engine parts.

 

[justin146]

You can make any power that you want with a 302 based engine. A recent dyno sheet posted on SBF tech had a 375(ish) NA engine making 600HP at 6000rpm, and 720hp at 7000rpm, peak being near 7200. That's the high end stuff, but with the right parts a 347 can easily make that with decent boost.

You can make all the power you want with a 302 based engine after you drop $2000 on a Dart or similar block....

 

[justin146]

Todd of RPS has done all of the hard work for his. The rub is how much trouble all of a bigger engine is. The custom headers, front dress(if not 302), and PCM etc, that makes a 302 so much better.

He also had a body lift which made fitting the 351 easier. I wish it was an easy swap- I'd be getting ready for a swap

 

[CDW6212R]

Making 5 or 600hp isn't cheap in any parts combination, but we all know how easy a 302 fits. The 302 was a tight squeeze for Ford, look at the headers, radiator and fan. I paid $450 extra for a crank and rods, and I should have chosen a Mexican block and used link bar lifters. I'm hoping to build two engines, this first one to be mild.

 

[jah81592]

Don-It would be easier to have a shaft made (extended) for the cam position sensor and run the stock Explorer electronics-where the distributor head used to reside. This has been done before, as I have looked into it. Why would you want a distributor when you can have the dependability and better spark from a dis system? Build a 302 vs a 351 engine for engine and the cu.in. will always prevail! If I am going to spend the time doing a swap it will be well worth it. But as of this moment I haven't had too much to worry about, my small v-6 and all.

 

[Jakee]

4.3 stroker running 15 LBS. That would be my vote for you James.