new to me 1996 explorer from grandma ignition issues , many parts changed

[96eb96]

update, truck at ford dealer now. they think the rpms are dropping due to the torque converter? asked about fuel trims and they gave me the runaround no real answer. getting 6 mpg now on truck. any thoughts? said egr holding vacuum and no vacuum leaks.

so far got new plugs, wires, maf sensor, iac valve, fuel filer, fuel pump relay, idler pulley and belt tensioner, battery,
thanks guys

also trans has been replaced before, has a big orange sticker on it with the model and saying attention do not return etc etc.

Fuel pressure?

 

[eric mentzer]

for a 110$ hour diagnostic i would assume they would check that. I told the service desk kid its ignition issue he said they drove it around and i need new front wheel sensors. how would fuel pressure affect this? i understand there is a fuel pressure sensor as well. i bought a 3/16 fitting but could not get on the rail with a wiring harness in the way. i got the flu too aint helping my patience haha. thank you

 

[96eb96]

for a 110$ hour diagnostic i would assume they would check that. I told the service desk kid its ignition issue he said they drove it around and i need new front wheel sensors. how would fuel pressure affect this? i understand there is a fuel pressure sensor as well. i bought a 3/16 fitting but could not get on the rail with a wiring harness in the way. i got the flu too aint helping my patience haha. thank you

96 I believe don't have a fuel pressure sensor. I don't know where the wheels sensors came from, but I would throw a gauge on it and see fuel pressure (and maybe volume too) when you got this problem. I mentioned fuel pressure way back, I don't see it was ever checked. If you are a hvac tech you throw a manifold on it first right :lol:. Fuel Pump can be intermittent.

 

[koda2000]

You can do a quick & dirty fuel pressure test using a $5 dial-style tire pressure gauge on the fuel rail Schrader valve. A '96 should have around 35 PSI.

 

[eric mentzer]

still working on a rig to adapt to check fuel psi, dealer sent me out the door said it was a loose wire on coil side of plug wires. said too big, sent me back to autozone and they had me on record buying new wires but didnt recognize ones on truck i pulled off. gave me new ones no hassle said someone prob returned used ones in new box. ugh. swapped them still rough starts. my buddy dr.subaru referred me to a good private ford guy, he said my oily intake plenum gasket and fuel rail gasket should be replaced. def oily residue on them. said maybe leaky injector i can see that once rail is lifted and key is turned. he said this older obd2 has an ambient air sensor and a coolant temp sensor that if one goes the computer is too slow to calculate and it dies before code is thrown. will repost once i get fuel psi. how hard would upper intake plenum gasket be as it is throwing oil over the fuel rail.?

 

[J_C]

Autozone has a loaner tool, fuel pressure gauge. If you have an intake gasket leak, or any gasket leak for that matter, no need to look further until that is replaced.

 

[koda2000]

still working on a rig to adapt to check fuel psi, dealer sent me out the door said it was a loose wire on coil side of plug wires. said too big, sent me back to autozone and they had me on record buying new wires but didnt recognize ones on truck i pulled off. gave me new ones no hassle said someone prob returned used ones in new box. ugh. swapped them still rough starts. my buddy dr.subaru referred me to a good private ford guy, he said my oily intake plenum gasket and fuel rail gasket should be replaced. def oily residue on them. said maybe leaky injector i can see that once rail is lifted and key is turned. he said this older obd2 has an ambient air sensor and a coolant temp sensor that if one goes the computer is too slow to calculate and it dies before code is thrown. will repost once i get fuel psi. how hard would upper intake plenum gasket be as it is throwing oil over the fuel rail.?

Upper and lower intake gaskets should take you about 2.5-3 hours. More or less depending on you skill level.

 

[96eb96]

still working on a rig to adapt to check fuel psi, dealer sent me out the door said it was a loose wire on coil side of plug wires. said too big, sent me back to autozone and they had me on record buying new wires but didnt recognize ones on truck i pulled off. gave me new ones no hassle said someone prob returned used ones in new box. ugh. swapped them still rough starts. my buddy dr.subaru referred me to a good private ford guy, he said my oily intake plenum gasket and fuel rail gasket should be replaced. def oily residue on them. said maybe leaky injector i can see that once rail is lifted and key is turned. he said this older obd2 has an ambient air sensor and a coolant temp sensor that if one goes the computer is too slow to calculate and it dies before code is thrown. will repost once i get fuel psi. how hard would upper intake plenum gasket be as it is throwing oil over the fuel rail.?

fuel rail gasket needs E-7 sockets (harbor freight has nice ones). The egr is a bit tricky but you can tip the whole upper intake out. There is an O-ring in there(for the big EGR pipe), I know autozone here had it in stock. It is specific to 96. If you buy a gasket kit it may be included.

Still would like to see fuel trims

 

[eric mentzer]

Yea i asked for fuel trims 3 times and twin pine ford ephrata was like what? What a joke. Told me transfer case is bad that why i have intermittent issues. Bunch of kids running the place, empty service dept and 10 salespeople raring to go. What pisses me off is i had my RECALL FIRE hazard cruise control brake fluid switch unplugged so it doesnt light up my home and family, and the tech plugged it back in "unfused" from factory and left it go. I just happened to notice it, and yes it sits in my balloon framed house/garage.

 

[96eb96]

Yea i asked for fuel trims 3 times and twin pine ford ephrata was like what? What a joke. Told me transfer case is bad that why i have intermittent issues. Bunch of kids running the place, empty service dept and 10 salespeople raring to go. What pisses me off is i had my RECALL FIRE hazard cruise control brake fluid switch unplugged so it doesnt light up my home and family, and the tech plugged it back in "unfused" from factory and left it go. I just happened to notice it, and yes it sits in my balloon framed house/garage.

Fuel trims are everything, that is how you know if there is a vacuum leak. Good fuel trims mean you have a perfect seal, working MAF, etc. Sometimes they can be just under the threshold for a code.

Really sad how repair places are, that is why I fix my own cars.

 

[eric mentzer]

update still having issues however my cheap scan tool actually picked up fuel trims and a pending code. P1409 egr vacuum regulator circuit. also pending P1000 obd systems readiness test not complete ( maybe cause battery was recently disconnected). this is greek to me so ill give it my best Short FT 1 max 4.7 min -5.5, short ft 2 max 3.9 min -6.3, long ft 1 max 0.8 min 0, long ft 2 max -1.6 min -1.6 (flatline on graph), may be more but i need to figure out this tool more. another unusual thing i notice on my first scan the o2 sensor was flatlined also 02S12 0.000v , 02s11 was max 0.815 min .080,
on second and third scans the 02 sensor that was flatlined seem to come back and SHRTFT12 was ... (blank). ill have to register and post photos im sure this typeout doesnt do it justice i just thought it was worth a try. I have upper intake gasket ready to go but waiting out this PA noreaster. damn the exploder loves the snow lol. thanks maybe the numbers will mean something to youse.

 

[96eb96]

update still having issues however my cheap scan tool actually picked up fuel trims and a pending code. P1409 egr vacuum regulator circuit. also pending P1000 obd systems readiness test not complete ( maybe cause battery was recently disconnected). this is greek to me so ill give it my best Short FT 1 max 4.7 min -5.5, short ft 2 max 3.9 min -6.3, long ft 1 max 0.8 min 0, long ft 2 max -1.6 min -1.6 (flatline on graph), may be more but i need to figure out this tool more. another unusual thing i notice on my first scan the o2 sensor was flatlined also 02S12 0.000v , 02s11 was max 0.815 min .080,
on second and third scans the 02 sensor that was flatlined seem to come back and SHRTFT12 was ... (blank). ill have to register and post photos im sure this typeout doesnt do it justice i just thought it was worth a try. I have upper intake gasket ready to go but waiting out this PA noreaster. damn the exploder loves the snow lol. thanks maybe the numbers will mean something to youse.

Are those fuel trims at warm idle? Then you have no real issues. P 1409 is an issue with the EGR vacuum solenoid. Make sure all the vac lines are connected. You may have to check the resistance of the solenoid. There is also a cap at the top that comes off, there may be dirt in there.

A bad egr system could cause the issues you have. TO diagnose without a ton of tools, remove the skinny egr vac tube from the EGR valve. Plug the vac line going to the egr with something. Drive around. If it goes away, the egr may be sticking open and causing stalling and the symptoms you describe.

Pull an egr open with a vacuum pump and you will see how fast the engine idles like crap and stalls.

 

[96eb96]

may be more but i need to figure out this tool more. another unusual thing i notice on my first scan the o2 sensor was flatlined also 02S12 0.000v , 02s11 was max 0.815 min .080,
on second and third scans the 02 sensor that was flatlined seem to come back and SHRTFT12 was ... (blank).

02S12 should have little movement, that is a healthy catalytic converter. If 02s11 flatlines too long, that can be a bad 02 sensor or a big vacuum leak, but usually a code will be thrown.

 

[eric mentzer]

I recently replaced the egr solenoid as an attempted shotgun repair maybe a week ago. I have a new egr valve. It looks like a hvac txv needle valve which they stick all the time. I pulled hose off egr valve and nothing changes much, could it be stuck open? Unfortunatly i havent been able to check fuel pressure yet. Should i do upper intake gasket and check injectors out anyway? Maybe swap egr valve since i have one but boy that suckers tight. 3 days of pb blaster and still wouldnt budge. Im new to autos i aprecciate your help.

 

[96eb96]

I recently replaced the egr solenoid as an attempted shotgun repair maybe a week ago. I have a new egr valve. It looks like a hvac txv needle valve which they stick all the time. I pulled hose off egr valve and nothing changes much, could it be stuck open? Unfortunatly i havent been able to check fuel pressure yet. Should i do upper intake gasket and check injectors out anyway? Maybe swap egr valve since i have one but boy that suckers tight. 3 days of pb blaster and still wouldnt budge. Im new to autos i aprecciate your help.

You will likely break the EGR tube, 50 bucks, ford still makes em :lol:. Try heating the nut with yellow MAPP.

I would hold off on the egr valve until you eliminate fuel. If you get a harbor freight hand vac pump you can check the egr valve. If the egr was open it would always run bad. You can eliminate the system like I said above. You should feel a very tiny vacuum at idle from the egr vac hose. The egr system is also good at throwing codes. The tube has those two outlets and that sensor measures differential EGR flow over the orifice. Then again it won't hurt to replace it at this age, especially if you have it, but it may not solve the problem.

With those fuel trims I would wait with the gaskets. Usually bad gaskets let lots of air in and you would have over 10.

 

[eric mentzer]

update, was bored this weekend and had egr valve and upper intake plenum gaskets. put em on. egr was a pain but oxy acety torch helped on the stuck nut. upper intake gaskets were flat and cracked, oil all overtop the fuel rail where you could see it was oozing all out where gaskets met. reassembeled and took for a spin. also reset pcu. still had starting issue after was driven on hot restart. egr tube gasket going into intake manifold ( o ring) looks rough but noone has one in stock so i did my best to get it back in. i did manage to grab fuel trims right as soon as the rough idle was ending with my ancel AD410 obd2 tool. data stream showed shortfueltrim1 max 31 min -7.8, shortfueltrim2 max 32 min -9.4, longfueltrim1 max 11.7 min -1.6. the very high reading are at the beginning for a min until it settled down to the lower numbers. still sounds like its hunting for idle to me although rpms dont seem to fluctuate much. another note the obd2 tool has "test $02 data" and it says component id $11 limit type min, test value 0, minimum limit 32850, max limit n/a, FAIL. i have no idea what it is testing but it says its not working i guess. i still cant get on fuel rail to check psi the schraeder is so far back in the little nipple i cant get it depressed. i did loosen it when it was off for ***** and giggles and it weeped out a little bit but not much. also changed dpfe sensor and since its been throwing a pending p1409 egr solenoid circuit so maybe new part was faulty? it was cheap lol. thanks guys i really dont know where to go from this point.

 

[96eb96]

DPFE would not likely affect EGR solenoid code. That code seems like an integrity check on the vacuum solenoid controller. I would look toward a bad EGR Solenoid. I would suspect maybe the new part is bad (you said you changed it). If the EGR solenoid is trashed it could be holding the EGR open, causing lots of issues. Put a finger on the EGR vac line, should have almost no vac at idle. If nothing helps, the PCM could be faulty. Its like a furnace control board not seeing the exhaust fan on :lol:.

I would check the fuel trims (mostly long term) a few minutes after it is warmed up, at idle, 1500rpm and 2500 rpm. That may give some clues too. If fuel trims aren't right at 2500 rpm the fuel pump may not be working right.

I think you meant mode $06. Don't worry about that, if its really bad you will get a CEL.

 

[eric mentzer]

update, checked long term fuel trims at recommended rpms, still getting awful mileage like 6 mpg. idle long ft1 max 11.7 min 8.6, longft2 max 10.9 min 7.8 at 868 to 744 rpm, 1500 rpm test longft1 max 2.3, min 2.3, long ft2 max 0.8, min 0.8, 2500 rpm test longft1 max 1.6, min 1.6, long ft2 max min both 0.00. i really need to read up on understanding these trims im getting frusterated lol note. as for replaced egr solenoid i could draw air with my mouth through the new part and the old part (unplugged in my hand), so i assumed was fine. if i take green vac hose off egr valve i can feel a little bit of vac palpitating but not crazy suction or anything. unplugging it does not seem to affect anything.

 

[Turdle]

You should not feel vacuum at the egr line, or much, until the egr solenoid turns on to allow the vacuum.

Have you tried a new fuel pressure regulator? Usually when economy goes that far south it is the culprit.

Are you absolutely sure the transmission is shifting to overdrive? Is it possible the overdrive off light is not working?
Are the rear emergency brakes dragging? The rear brakes are comprised of discs, with an internal drum brake for parking brake. The drums will sometimes hang up and not fully release.


As far as the cruise control brake switch recall, you need to document this. It is a very real deal of concern.

 

[eric mentzer]

progress, think i found the culprit. finally done messing with fords dumb 1/16" npt fuel rail port so i unscrewed it and put a better adapter in so i can get on the fuel rail. key on, fuel pump primes and i get not even 1 psi of gas, just barely trickling/pissing out real slow. but it keeps coming like its being held back. had the old lady fire it up and once engine fires fuel psi came up to 28 psi. same results multple trys. im hoping its the regulator not allowing gas in to fire it off, seems like once motor runs and vac pulls on reg it opens a little more. worth a shot looks pretty easy to get to right on top by intake manifold and fuel psi port. wish i checked fuel first like everyone else said lol